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Crystal Mountain Gondola


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#161 Crystal Coach

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:20 PM

View PostSkier, on 10 December 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

Cabins are on the line. Note the big Crystal logo is on the bottom of the cabins instead of the front and back.


I was up there all weekend. Lots of sounds and sights, but only 1 or 2 cabins on the storage rail or on the line. Cabins and hanger assemblies are still over 100 yards apart. Close, but a ways to go.

#162 Peter

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 06:36 PM

Quote

The Mt. Rainier Gondola is scheduled to open on Thursday, December 23rd!

The first 100 foot passengers in line at a designated ticket window Wednesday morning will receive a free scenic ride ticket.

The opening ceremony is scheduled to begin at 9 a.m. The Mt. Rainier Gondola will begin loading public at roughly 10:00 a.m., following a ribbon cutting ceremony.

On-site season pass-holders may enter into a “Lucky 8” drawing to be the first to ride the gondola . The lucky winners will walk a red carpet and stop for a photo opportunity before getting whisked away in the first gondola cabin.

Throughout the day riders will be surprised by random prize cabins loaded with 8 presents, enough for each passenger, from local outdoor brands and retailers including Jansport, Smith, UnderArmour, Outdoor Research, Marmot, Spacecraft, Crystal Mountain Lodging Association, Wapiti Woolies, Greenwater Outfitters, Evo and more.

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#163 skierdude9450

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:17 PM

Are they holding steady to their design capacity of 600 p/h or something crazy like that?
-Matt

"Today's problems cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein

#164 Peter

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:36 PM

I heard there are only 15 cabins so far with 5 more coming in February.
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#165 Peter

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 03:24 PM

Apparently 1 cabin blew off the ridge overnight, tumbled down green valley and broke. $40,000 mistake?
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#166 Crystal Coach

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:25 AM

View PostSkier, on 19 December 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:

I heard there are only 15 cabins so far with 5 more coming in February.




View PostSkier, on 19 December 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

Apparently 1 cabin blew off the ridge overnight, tumbled down green valley and broke. $40,000 mistake?


Originally, there were 18 cabins (36 cabin capacity), then 5 more were purchased. 1 did blow away, but that was a while ago. I doubt they will make the same mistake twice.

Mid-week, Crystal will become a real leg burner. Imagine doing non-stop laps with an uphill time of under 10 minutes. 4 top to bottom runs an hour?! I know MY legs (and back) could not handle that. I would like to TRY however!!

#167 Peter

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:30 PM

As of this afternoon, all cabins were on and it was running smoothly for hours. There were even employees riding. Load test is tomorrow.
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#168 Peter

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:06 PM

Pictures from today...

Attached File(s)


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#169 Lavalamp

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:16 PM

Opening will be delayed, with no new date set. The cable has stretched more than normal and they will have to re-splice it.

This post has been edited by Lavalamp: 21 December 2010 - 02:18 PM


#170 Peter

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:49 PM

The entire statement on Crystal's website:

Quote

Gondola Opening Delayed
Due to an unforseen setback the opening of the gondola has been delayed.

As of 11 a.m. today Doppelmayr engineers discovered that the cable had stretched over three feet in the past 24 hours. It is typical for a new cable to stretch, however in our case the cable has stretched more than normal. The only solution is to re-splice the cable. Effort is underway to schedule this as soon as possible, although it could take up to a week.

Today’s load test has been canceled and will resume after the cable splice has been completed. The grand opening celebration will be rescheduled, with a date to be announced next week.

“While this setback is disappointing, smooth functioning of the gondola is more important than meeting a deadline,” said John Kircher, Crystal Mountain’s General Manager. “We are committed to doing this right.”

Christmas eve and Christmas day dinners at the Summit House have been canceled.

Please stay tuned to the website for updates.


It's really unfortunate that they will miss the Christmas vacation week. Also all the Summit House breakfasts and dinners have been canceled too. They are going to have to close a bunch of the mountain again because the cable is going to be on the ground again. I'm bummed because I go back to school on the 3rd.
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#171 CH3skier

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 04:42 PM

View PostLavalamp, on 21 December 2010 - 02:16 PM, said:

Opening will be delayed, with no new date set. The cable has stretched more than normal and they will have to re-splice it.


I guess I have a technical question with stretching. I noticed there are very long spans between the towers on this gondola. With the longer spans, would this cause more stretch then usual?

This post has been edited by CH3skier: 21 December 2010 - 04:42 PM


#172 OnPiste

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 05:13 PM

View PostSkier, on 21 December 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

The entire statement on Crystal's website:



It's really unfortunate that they will miss the Christmas vacation week. Also all the Summit House breakfasts and dinners have been canceled too. They are going to have to close a bunch of the mountain again because the cable is going to be on the ground again. I'm bummed because I go back to school on the 3rd.



Dear ski lift installation and maintenance professionals, please to explain the probable causes for the problem at Crystal. Also, a primer on cable splicing would be appreciated--that seems like quite an involved art. I saw on another source that the cable splice for one the lifts at Hyak is 120 feet long. Is that typical?

Finally, Boyne has three lifts going in this year--two at Hyak and one at Crystal and all three are late and having problems. Wazzup with that?

Bill

#173 Peter

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 05:33 PM

View PostCH3skier, on 21 December 2010 - 04:42 PM, said:

I guess I have a technical question with stretching. I noticed there are very long spans between the towers on this gondola. With the longer spans, would this cause more stretch then usual?

To add to that, are the spans long because there aren't going to be very many cabins or because the tension is higher than normal? I would think the tension would be lower than a normal gondola because the terminals are shorter (meaning a shorter tension carriage?) and there aren't going to be very many cabins.

View PostOnPiste, on 21 December 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:

Dear ski lift installation and maintenance professionals, please to explain the probable causes for the problem at Crystal. Also, a primer on cable splicing would be appreciated--that seems like quite an involved art. I saw on another source that the cable splice for one the lifts at Hyak is 120 feet long. Is that typical?

Finally, Boyne has three lifts going in this year--two at Hyak and one at Crystal and all three are late and having problems. Wazzup with that?

Bill

Boyne does all its lifts in house instead of turnkey, which in Crystal's case means Doppelmayr provided the equipment and oversight but Crystal did all the construction. If Doppelmayr was the construction contractor, there would have been a completion date in the contract. The project manager at Crystal is Rohn Stilson, who also did Northway at Crystal and the Chondola at Sunday River. Not sure who is overseeing the work at Hyak.

Hey, at least it's not too short!
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#174 liftmech

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 06:08 AM

I can answer a few of these questions. In no particular order:

-- Rope stretch is unrelated to tower spans. Generally it's a function of age and wear; i.e. the longer the rope's held under tension the more it will stretch. It sounds like this particular problem is not something that we usually see with ropes. I don't know all the details yet so I'm not going to speculate. Member Splicer is working on that project and will undoubtedly know more when he's finished.

-- The length of the carriage rails don't affect tension. Tension is achieved through dead weight (concrete block counterweight) or hydraulic pressure in the tension rams. The length of the carriage rails allows for normal daily movement of the rope; it will shrink in the cold and stretch with load and heat. If the rails are shorter than normal/average it just means the rope will have to be respliced sooner.

-- Boyne is having a run of bad luck with installs this season. It's as simple as that. We all have that from time to time.

-- The figure of 120' mentioned above for a splice is fairly typical. It will be longer for a larger rope. A rule of thumb I've often heard (and used) is that the splice, from the end of the first tail to the end of the last, needs to be 1200 x the diameter of the rope. Thus an 1 3/8" rope such as the ones likely used at Hyak would need to have a splice 137'6". The double chair up there might be using an 1 1/4" rope so its splice would be 125'.

-- When the engineer designs the liftline he takes into account terrain, design load (carrier + people) and other factors to determine tower spacing. There are several approaches to this and that's why you'll see an old Riblet with more towers than a new Poma, for example.

-- An overview of a haul rope splice.

Hope this helps.
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#175 Peter

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:07 PM

Not that it has anything to do with the problem, but the haul rope was made by Redailli of Italy. Aren't most of them Fatzer or Teufelberger?
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#176 liftmech

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 05:30 AM

$$
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#177 Kelly

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 07:44 AM

To add to what liftmech mentioned…
There is no problem this is a planned event…and the 3’ foot stretch overnight is the marketing department artistic editing - read below.
Newer readers - For a better understanding of ropeway nomenclature go to this link (front page) http://www.skilifts.org/old click on the Glossary tab. Scroll to counterweight, tension system and wirerope.
Most (but not all) ropeways have a carriage tension terminal – this is needed for applying rope tension - rope tension is needed for the bullwheel to have adequate traction when it drives the haul rope, prevent excessive sag between towers, adjustments for temperature, and to adjust for different load combinations.
The carriage rides on terminal rails. The red arrows in the image below point to the carriage wheels and you can see the tensioning device – in this case a block of concrete – in a pit in the snow.
Attached File  Platter-double-rail.jpg (45.5K)
Number of downloads: 59
Some chairlifts have a single rail that the carriage rides on – improved, perhaps…cheaper to build yes.
Attached File  Yan-single-rail.jpg (49.73K)
Number of downloads: 76
Some tension terminals have long rails, some short…short rails cost less.
Wirerope by the nature of the construction process is spun with small (very small) spaces between each wire. These spaces can be removed by various methods of “pre-tensioning” at the rope factory…this costs more, is hard to quantify, is not totally effective and because of those variables some ski resorts skip that option.
After tensioning and initial running (running is more effective than tension) these spaces almost disappear. The initial running may take 40 hours or 40 days and is dependent construction, temperature and length.
When the initial spaces are reduced, the diameter shrinks by a very small amount, and the rope gets longer due to its spiral construction.**
Some terms used by the industry are - construction stretch or reduction of construction stretch. The wires DO NOT STRETCH as they are quite resistant to tension stretching…somewhere around a factor of 10X the normal running tension they will stretch but this can only be done with special testing devices.
A further analogy
Remember that one Christmas when your aunt Nellie knitted you the sweater that had sleeves that were slightly shorter than your arms…you lengthened the arms by (pulling) applying tension that reduced the small spaces in the initial (knitting) construction…

So we have this very long wirerope that has run a few days, and it needs to be shortened due to the nature of its construction for the tension system to work correctly (as liftmech says above)…this is a planned maintenance event and not a problem.

Down Time
The time to take to splice a rope of this size and get the lift in running order is approximately 250 man hours (think 10 guys @ 25 hours or an army of 25 guys @ 10 hours) of labor so the gondola will be closed for 2 to 3 days.*

Other links -
Ryer Rope (Ryer Family) as a few images, this one is from the gondola at Heavenly Valley (South Lake Tahoe) rope size is 56mm.
Attached File  Ryer-splice.jpg (48.27K)
Number of downloads: 78
Link: http://ryerrope.com/index.htm
Wire Rope life, stretch and splicing: http://www.skilifts....?showtopic=7627
Early ropeway history: http://www.skilifts....?showtopic=8342
Here is a splice on a smaller scale…you can try this at home with a piece of wirerope from the hardware store.
Attached File  Small-splice.jpg (24.94K)
Number of downloads: 51


*Finding the rigging to final clean-up.
*Urban ropeways have specialized rigging and tensioning schemes so the splices can be done overnight with no delay of transportation services.
**If you have enough experience with the wirerope from the same production run you can “fudge out” most of the known construction stretch during the initial splice.
www.ropetech.org

#178 Lift Kid

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 08:28 AM

"Stretching" in the cable is a normal thing that occurs with new and old cables alike. We just re-spliced the cable on the 1987 VonRoll to account for it's wear.

#179 CH3skier

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 08:31 AM

Thanks for answering the questions liftmech & Kelly!

#180 Limelight

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:02 AM

So was this a case of marketing getting ahead of the engineering?





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