105 replies to this topic

[DonaldMReif]

I don't know how many people even use Cascade as an access point, because that might also be a useless lift.

I guess a real useless one could be Argentine. It's Keystone's auxiliary Mountain House lift that comes on sometimes to relieve the Peru Express lift, but you notice that it only seems to serve to get people over to the Montezuma Express lift when the Peru Express needs relief.

[DonaldMReif]

Then again, I know that the last master plan proposed upgrading Argentine by realigning it to have a midstation, a turn, and end at the top of Paymaster.

[NoPainNoJane]

20 is a real estate lift, its a selling point for ski in/out rental & sales in the Cascade area. It's also convenient for those riding the red line and already have your gear. It is faster to get off at Cascade and ride 20 & 26 to reach Eagle's Nest than it is to get off in Lionshead, walk to the gondy, and wait in the line. When I had a place in West Vail, it would save me on average 10/15 minutes, plus riding down the terrain under 20 when coverage is decent isn't bad, great fall line in that area. As for the future, Vail doesn't own the lift, Cascade does, it will most likely never get upgraded unless it is with a used HS, the HOA only has so much money each year to maintain the lift and that's about it.

[DonaldMReif]

I guess Snowflake at Peak 8 is the same way. It's a real estate lift, or at least the bottom terminal is. The midload station has more practical purposes for people skiing on the mountain since anyone traveling from Peaks 9 and 10 over to Peaks 8, 7 and 6 can use the midstation load as an alternative to riding the Peak 8 SuperConnect and skiing down to Peak 8 base. I don't know if it's any faster or not.


Might as well for questionable lift installations put down the Far East Express at Squaw. I mean, of the three chairlifts on Snow King Peak, it's the most useless. The triples have terrain that actually can be used. And I think I've mentioned Far East before.

[snoloco]

The Straightbrook Quad at Gore Mountain is an essential lift, but on a questionable alignment. They installed it in 1995, a few years before they replaced the old Von Roll gondola right next to it. It replaced a Riblet double on the same alignment. The Gondola was replaced in 1999 with the Northwoods Gondola built by Poma. This gondola follows a completely different line, ending at Bear Mountain, vs the Gore Mountain summit. This meant that no lift followed the old gondola alignment. However, rather they did not anticipate replacing the gondola and installed the quad on the double chair alignment. They also were too cheap to rip out the old gondola top station. What this means is a lengthy skate across the top of the peak to get to one of the trails when they could have installed the lift on a different alignment had they planned it out with almost no skating at all. Removing the old gondola station would be a good start as it would eliminate some of the distance. Regrading might also be able to solve the problem.

[Backbowlsbilly]

I don't really think Argentine is useless, its almost always faster than Peru in terms of lines and when it gets replaced (which will happen soon since it is in the master plan and Vail will probably build out the Mountain House base) a lot more people will use it. Hopefully Vail expands the outer edge of Earl's Bowl, which was approved when Blue Sky was approved but never done by Vail, and that would make Earl's a lot more important to the skier flow at Blue Sky. Earl's Bowl has some of the best terrain at Blue Sky in Champagne Glades and Earl's is one of favorite lifts, most people don't use it. It would most likely get new chairs to increase capacity if they do that expansion. since it has a low capacity now but thats probably a long ways out. Vail will likely focus on Sun Up next or maybe a lift for Sun Down Bowl. 6 Chair at Breck does have long lines, it along with C Chair are probably the only lifts left at Breck that would possibly need replaced now with the Colorado 6 pack, although nobody uses C Chair but Breck has talked about replacing it before. Arrow at Winter Park is similar as a seldom used lift, most beginners use Gemini and it is easier to get around the mountain using Zephyr, leaving Arrow for racers and people trying to escape the lines. Highlands at Beaver Creek is similar as well, seldom used since the ski school is almost exclusively on the Buckaroo Gondola and it is also the only Yan remaining at Beaver Creek. My guess is it will be removed and replaced with a used fixed grip triple, maybe Sun Up from Vail. Drink of Water at Beaver Creek will probably get replaced, since Beaver Creek replaces everything, but not for a while since every run it services is also serviced by Cinch. Elkhorn at Beaver Creek is mostly a real estate lift, for ski out access from lower Beaver Creek Village and to serve the homes in the area, meaning that those three lifts will be the only fixed grip lifts at Beaver Creek for some time.

[Kicking Horse]

DonaldMReif, on 19 November 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

I guess Snowflake at Peak 8 is the same way. It's a real estate lift, or at least the bottom terminal is. The midload station has more practical purposes for people skiing on the mountain since anyone traveling from Peaks 9 and 10 over to Peaks 8, 7 and 6 can use the midstation load as an alternative to riding the Peak 8 SuperConnect and skiing down to Peak 8 base. I don't know if it's any faster or not.


Might as well for questionable lift installations put down the Far East Express at Squaw. I mean, of the three chairlifts on Snow King Peak, it's the most useless. The triples have terrain that actually can be used. And I think I've mentioned Far East before.

If i'm not mistaken Far East is a base area lift that served a parking lot .....

[DonaldMReif]

When it is open, Lift C does have some use as it can be used to get to upper Peak 9 without traversing all the way along Sawmill to the Beaver Run SuperChair when it's open. Of course, Frosty's Freeway to Lift E does the same thing, but still....

[JSteigs]

DonaldMReif, on 19 November 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

Might as well for questionable lift installations put down the Far East Express at Squaw. I mean, of the three chairlifts on Snow King Peak, it's the most useless. The triples have terrain that actually can be used. And I think I've mentioned Far East before.

Far east used to have a ticket booth near it, I don't think it does now. It was a convenient option instead of walking over to the ticket portals by the Funi. It can also help in making laps on Paulsen's gully. To go straight back to Red Dog you have to keep speed through the top of Papoose, and then skate over the little hill where the shop is. Or you know for marketing, when it's lower mountain only due to a storm or winds, they can say they have one more detachable running.

[RibStaThiok]

DonaldMReif, on 19 November 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

When it is open, Lift C does have some use as it can be used to get to upper Peak 9 without traversing all the way along Sawmill to the Beaver Run SuperChair when it's open. Of course, Frosty's Freeway to Lift E does the same thing, but still....

Lift-C takes almost 15 minutes if there are no stops... I love it, but most skiers don't..

[DonaldMReif]

I mean, C is pretty important and a pretty long-lasting lift that's been around for 42 years now. I mean, it's amazing to think that all of the Breckenridge Riblets were built well before the original Quicksilver Quad was built: Lift A dates to 1975, Lift C dates to 1972, Lift E dates to 1982, Lift 5 dates to 1970, Lift 6 dates to 1979, and Lift 7 dates to 1980.


I don't know if Twister at Crested Butte would count as a questionable alignment, even though I am aware that the Master Plan has called for upgrading it.

Eldora's main lifts may not have questionable alignments, but the learning area lifts do. I mean, many of them just seem redundant, like, they could easily remove Caribou and leave EZ and Sundance up (I am aware, though, of Eldora's master plan to replace Challenge and Cannonball with a high speed six pack).

[RibStaThiok]

Lift 5 is still up and running? That's great! I figured it would have been replaced by now. Does it still have the mid station?

[DonaldMReif]

Yeah, it does. I mean, they still have the Alpine Slide there and that little wacky bit that allows for the slight turn.

[MtBakerSkier]

I think that making Chair 1 a quad at Mt. Baker was overkill. They should've just replaced the old Riblet with a new double.

[Peter Pitcher]

All of Mt. Baker's lifts are diesel powered fixed grip quads aren't they?

[teachme]

Would it not be fair to only label a lift as questionable if it was built and immediately seen as useless. Many lifts are made redundant by later ones but that does not mean they are questionable as they were built with a clear purpose. An old double never used but held as backup beside a newer high speed quad is in my mind not questionable as it was built with a purpose.

[liftmech]

To answer the Mt Baker questions-- yes, they're all diesel-powered quads. They're all quads for consistency as well, ease of maintenance and all that. Less parts to stock when you have a lot of the same carriers and tower assemblies and whatnot. I was able to take parts off old chair 5 and put them on 6 (or 2, or 1) when they were Riblets, and it's the same now. Chair 1's capacity is the same now as it was when it was a double, as well.

[RibStaThiok]

When were lifts 3 and 6 replaced at Baker? Those were doubles... What were they replaced with?

[Peter]

RibStaThiok, on 23 November 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

When were lifts 3 and 6 replaced at Baker? Those were doubles... What were they replaced with?

2006 and 2004 with Doppelmayr quads.

[liftmech]

Chair 2 was the first to be replaced, in '01 with a Riblet quad. 4 and 5 in '02 with a Garaventa/CTEC quad. Then 6 and 3 as Peter mentions, and finally 1 in '08.