21 replies to this topic

[SkiDaBird]

I'm not in the industry so maybe some of you can enlighten me.
A lot of you all talk about 90 degree loads causing problems. I have never seen why they would cause problems, but the 2 lifts I have skied a lot that do 90 degree load, Sugarloaf (Alta) and Peruvian (Snowbird) are both used much more by experienced skiers. I also thought that it would be worth asking if 90 degree unloads, used at Snowbird on half the HSQs, cause trouble in your experience. In summary, does the 90 degree load/unload cause trouble, and if so why?

Thanks!

[floridaskier]

Never seen 90 degree unloading anywhere other than Alta and Snowbird. The new Little Cloud has it too. For Peruvian, there is really no other way given where the upper terminal is, and it makes sense for Little Cloud too, which lets off on a narrow ridge. They have very obvious signs telling you to stay on, since I don't think people are very used to 90 degree unloading yet.

Loading doesn't seem to be a problem either, since it's becoming pretty common on new lifts. Gooseneck turns seem to create more trouble for inexperienced skiers.

[snoloco]

Hunter Mountain has a 90 degree load and unload on the Kaatskill Flyer which is a 2010 Leitner POMA 6 pack. The unload is great and it eliminates a gooseneck turn that the lift it repalced had. The load on the other hand is a complete basket case. This lift has a very fast terminal speed at the bottom. The way the contour is set up means that the chair is only straight for a fraction of a second. If you are on the outside of the chair and load a little too early or late when the chair is turning, it can knock you over. One time someone got hit so hard by the chair that he was thrown off the front of the ramp and pulled under the chair which dislocated his knee. The lifties always try to get you to move up to the end of the ramp where the line is and proper spot to load is. However, you need to stand at the edge of the ramp and that can freak people out sometimes. Having the drive motor right above your head doesn't help either, since it makes it hard for lifties to tell you where the correct position is without yelling. This mountain is very rocky and steep, so they would have to blast in order to run electric to the top, so the drive kind of has to be where it is. This lift stops all the time and slows down even more and should be converted to in line loading before more people get hurt.

[DonaldMReif]

Beaver Creek:
90 degree loading is used on the Rose Bowl Express lift and the Birds of Prey Express lift. 90 degree unloading is used on the Lower Beaver Creek Mountain Express lift because it is situated in a tight spot, between the bottom terminal of the Upper Beaver Creek Mountain Express lift and the lift line of the Bachelor Gulch Express lift.

Vail:
90 degree loading is used on the Highline Express lift and on the new Mountaintop Express lift. On the Highline Express, it's kind of necessary due to the location of the bottom terminal. On the Mountaintop Express, they could've gone with in-line loading, but they wanted to use the loading carpet system.

The Sourdough Express lift had 90 degree loading from 2007 to 2010. It was converted to inline loading so that people coming from Patrol Headquarters could ski right into the line from the Timberline Catwalk without having to make a tight gooseneck turn.

Breckenridge:

The Imperial Express SuperChair has 90 degree loading and unloading like the Kaatskill Flyer. In both cases, it's kind of a necessity due to both terminals' locations. The bottom terminal is located on rocky terrain where in-line loading would require an extensive wooden platform, not to mention that there is the storage rail. The upper terminal is built almost into the side of the steep face at the top of Peak 8, and 90 degree unloading is necessary because there is no room for in-line unloading.

Quicksilver Super6, being a double loading six pack, has 90 degree loading.

The Peak 8 SuperConnect used to have 90 degree loading at the bottom terminal (at the junction of Red Rover and Sundown) until this season, when they converted it to in-line loading, most likely to reduce stops and slows caused by misloads. However, they did not alter the speed of the contour, meaning the chair comes at you pretty fast when you reach the new location of the loading line. Also, the overhang with the loading directions marking the original location of the loading gates, still exists.

The Independence SuperChair was originally built with 90 degree loading at the bottom terminal. When they extended the lift downhill in 2008 to connect to Grand Lodge on Peak 7, the Crystal Peak Lodge, and the gondola, they converted the lift from 90 degree loading to in-line loading so that they could add a second queue line. Of the current six packs, only the Kensho SuperChair was built with inline loading to begin with, and I think the Colorado SuperChair might also feature it when it is upgraded next year.

Keystone:
The Ruby Express lift has a 90 degree loading with gates.

This post has been edited by DonaldMReif: 22 January 2014 - 07:35 AM

[SkiDaBird]

snoloco, on 21 January 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Hunter Mountain has a 90 degree load and unload on the Kaatskill Flyer which is a 2010 Leitner POMA 6 pack. The unload is great and it eliminates a gooseneck turn that the lift it repalced had. The load on the other hand is a complete basket case. This lift has a very fast terminal speed at the bottom. The way the contour is set up means that the chair is only straight for a fraction of a second. If you are on the outside of the chair and load a little too early or late when the chair is turning, it can knock you over. One time someone got hit so hard by the chair that he was thrown off the front of the ramp and pulled under the chair which dislocated his knee. The lifties always try to get you to move up to the end of the ramp where the line is and proper spot to load is. However, you need to stand at the edge of the ramp and that can freak people out sometimes. Having the drive motor right above your head doesn't help either, since it makes it hard for lifties to tell you where the correct position is without yelling. This mountain is very rocky and steep, so they would have to blast in order to run electric to the top, so the drive kind of has to be where it is. This lift stops all the time and slows down even more and should be converted to in line loading before more people get hurt.

So it seems to me that the problem is that the lift isn't straight for long enough and is moving too fast, which is not helped by the 90 degree load, but is something that could potentially be averted.

[Walt Askier]

The blue lift at Nubs has 90 degree loading and unloading:





It's on old Poma with bottom drive and a flying bull wheel at the top:

[ss20]

Mt. Snow's Bluebird Express has 90 degree loading and loading. It was necessary because you'd hit the summit lodge if you unloaded the conventional method. Since this is one of the few lifts in the east that uses 90 degree unloading, so there are frequent stops. The GM said when a new summit lodge is built they will change the unloading to in-line unloading. However, that "new lodge" is decades away. I wouldn't be surprised if the lodge outlasts the chair.

Here's a blurry picture that shows the summit lodge from the Bluebird.
 Unload Area.JPG (1.77MB)
Number of downloads: 65

[Lift Dinosaur]

Walt- I think you missed it. 90 degree load refers to loading the lift perpendicular to the lift line, in which case they would be loading on the bullwheel at the bottom of Nubs. And turning 90 degrees after getting off is not the reference- once again it means unloading from the chair perpendicular to the lift line.
Dino

[SuperRat]

Walt's example is called, "Tangential" loading.

I don't know what the unload is called. "Get out of the way before the chair hits you" unloading?

[Walt Askier]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I would expect that if it's caled 'tangential loading' then what goes on at the top would be called 'tangential unloading'. Anyway, the blue chair is one of my favorites - it almost never stops since no beginner ever rides it a second time.

[Midwestrider]

Granite Peak WI, Comet Express (LP Omega 6 place) has had 90 degree loading with Leitner-Poma loading gates since the lift was installed in 2003, this will most likely be changed to rear loading for 2014-2015. This lift gets a lot of first time intermediates, which causes many problems at times. Dasher Express (LP LPA Quad 2012) has rear loading and has been very successful with very few problems and stops, However it serves more advanced terrain.

[Yooper Skier]

I've also heard "side-loading" fixed-grips referred to as conventional loading, as opposed to bull wheel loading...my 2 cents

[SkiDaBird]

Walt Askier, on 06 February 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I would expect that if it's caled 'tangential loading' then what goes on at the top would be called 'tangential unloading'. Anyway, the blue chair is one of my favorites - it almost never stops since no beginner ever rides it a second time.

Believe it or not, I'v been to Nub's a few times. Preferred Yellow to Blue since it had better access to Scarface and Chute.

[DonaldMReif]

I think the contour speeds of 90 degree loading/unloading lifts differ from those with rear/inline loading. I believe this because when they converted the Peak 8 SuperConnect from 90 degree to rear loading this year, the Breckenridge lift people did not seem to bother to change the contour speed, so the chair hits you at a much higher velocity than I remember with the 90 degree loading area.

The only reason Imperial must operate as a 90 degree loading lift is because A) it's low capacity and is meant for experienced skiers and riders only, and B) because of the location of the bottom terminal and the chair parking rails. As for the 90 degree unload at the top, it does feel a bit unusual your first time doing it because all other lifts on the rest of the mountain have forward unloading.

[snoloco]

I noticed that Ramshead at Killington was converted to 90 degree loading. Snowshed and Skye Peak have it as well. It makes sense on Skye Peak since it eliminates a gooseneck turn, but there is no reason to have it on Ramshead or Snowshed since it creates a gooseneck turn in the queue. Both Ramshead and Snowshed get more than their fair share of beginners, so they don't run at their design speed which is 1,000 fpm on Snowshed and 1,100 fpm on Ramshead. Both lifts run at 800 fpm normally. The chair doesn't whip around when you load, but the gooseneck turns can be quite annoying and cause a few misloads.

[Backbowlsbilly]

A note on Winter Park, both of their six-packs (Super Gauge and Panoramic) have 90 degree loading while many of the high speed quads that could have used 90 degree loading (Eskimo, Prospector, High Lonesome, Olympia) have in-line loading.

[DonaldMReif]

On the Eskimo Express and the Prospector Express lifts, 90 degree loading would theoretically eliminate gooseneck turns in both lifts' queues. The Eskimo Express certainly could use it. The High Lonesome Express lift has a really tight gooseneck turn that could also be eliminated if they converted it to 90 degree loading. The Olympia Express has to retain inline loading because it runs clockwise and the queue for the lift is located on the uphill side of the lift line.

[SkiDaBird]

Forgot to mention Moonbeam at Solitude. They pretty much had to use a 90 degree because there isn't much space there. There are very few misloads but it's Solitude, there really are never more than 2 people in the chair. Plus they run lifts slow most of the time.

[skierdude9450]

DonaldMReif, on 21 January 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Beaver Creek:
90 degree loading is used on the Rose Bowl Express lift and the Birds of Prey Express lift.

Rose Bowl actually has in line loading now. I'm not quite sure why they would have designed it for contour loading only to change it a year later.

[skierdude9450]

To add to the conversation, Excelerator at Copper Mountain was the first 90 degree loading lift I ever saw and was one of the first (if not the first) in North America to feature it. It took everyone by surprise at first as I remember, but people got used to it pretty quickly.