15 replies to this topic

[snoloco]

Is there any rhyme or reason to order a lift with or without foot rest equipped safety bars? Factors I can come up with as to why get a lift without them are cost, clearance (for lifts with mid stations), and weight on the line. Two reasons to get a lift with foot rests are comfort and safety (harder to slide out under the safety bar). Are these reasons correct?

[mikest2]

We didn't put footrests on our shorter lifts, or our beginner quad. They are more of a comfort item on a longer ride.

[DonaldMReif]

The things about clearance are correct. That is why the Christie Peak Express at Steamboat is the sole high speed six pack in Colorado to not have footrests - the ramp at the midway unload station would be hampered with lowered bars that have footrests. On the other hand, the five high speed quads have footrests because they service terrain that is utilized by more experienced skiers.

Practically, the decision of whether or not to use footrests also stems from the question of whether or not beginner traffic is heavy on those lifts. Of Winter Park's seven high speed quads and two high speed six packs, only the six packs and the three high speed quads in the Wonderland/Vasquez Ridge/transition area between Winter Park and Mary Jane (Olympia Express, High Lonesome Express, Pioneer Express) have footrests. The four high speed quads on the front side of Winter Park (Zephyr Express, Gemini Express, Eskimo Express and Prospector Express) do not have footrests. They aren't all that long (both the Gemini Express and Prospector Express are around just a half mile in length), and their ride times are very short.

Outside of Winter Park, the only other place where you can find a high speed quad not equipped with footrests is Coney Glade at Snowmass. It's the sole footrest-free high speed quad there, as all of Snowmass's other high speed quads and the Village Express lift have footrests. The interesting thing to see in this case is that those are basically the only five high speed quads in Colorado to not have footrests. Every other high speed quad in operation in the state has footrests. Vail has footrests on all of their high speed quads and six pack, which in every instance makes them a comfort item. Even the the Sourdough Express, as the shortest of the fifteen, has footrests.

The same applies to Copper Mountain. Footrests are used on all of their high speed quads and six pack, which is a good thing for the long distance rides you have on the American Flyer and the Super Bee lift.

At Keystone, all of the lifts except Ranger and the three double chairlifts have footrests, even the fixed grip Wayback quad returning you from the Outback. This is probably a nice feature given that Wayback is usually about a nine to ten minute ride, giving you the opportunity to rest your legs.

At Breckenridge, only the high speed quads and six packs get the footrest treatment. It was actually kind of surprising at first that Zendo was built without footrests, until you realize that the distance it covers to take you from Peak 7 to the Kensho SuperChair and Peak 6 isn't that far and it isn't too long of a ride (assuming no stops or slows on the way).

[floridaskier]

Seems to mostly be a question of cost. The Park City resorts are a good example, with footrests corresponding to each mountain's personality and spending habits. Deer Valley naturally has footrests on every lift, except the two beginner doubles. Park City has footrests on the important lifts - the four six packs and Crescent, safety bars on King Con (also an important long lift, but from previous administration), First Time (the beginner lift), Pioneer and Town Lift (CTEC triples from the 80s, bars are new from ~5 years ago), and Three Kings (2011 Doppeltec terrain park lift), and nothing at all on the rest for the hardcore skiers. The four six packs were installed without footrests, but got them added in the early 2000s (the old safety bars come out on Payday in the summer).

The Canyons has only installed one lift with footrests in their 17 seasons: Orange Bubble Express, where they spared no expense with electric seat heaters, 150 automatic bubble chairs made in Germany, midstation, full automatic chair parking at the top, custom Uni-G orange glass, fancy lift shacks, water evacuation, orange leather seats. Midstations don't rule out footrests - the bubble chair has a midstation that has enough clearance to handle footrests down, since the bubbles close automatically if nobody is on the chair. The Iron Mountain Express installed the same year has orange seats too, but no footrests.

The rest of their lifts were installed in the days when ASC was running out of money in the early 2000s - mostly bottom drive, no footrests, used fixed grips instead of the planned new detaches. The only other lifts that have footrests there didn't begin life under the ASC administration - the twice-relocated Dreamscape (former Saddleback from the Wolf Mountain days and Raptor CTEC fixed quads at The Canyons) and Day Break (Yan triple which began life as Wasatch and then Quincy at Deer Valley).

The other footrest trivia from The Canyons is that the Lookout/Short Cut lift was installed used without footrests, then received surplus Deer Valley Yan chairs with footrests, then got new CTEC chairs without footrests a couple years ago.

[DonaldMReif]

That cost thing would explain a bit about Brighton. All of their lifts with the exception of the Millicent Express and the Explorer triple have footrests.

[snoloco]

At Mountain Creek the only lifts that have footrests are the Vernon Triple and the Sojourn Double. These are the two lifts with the longest ride times. Both have 12 minute rides. The two high speed quads and two fixed grip quads do not have foot rests. These lifts all have ride times under 9 minutes, so the trips are shorter.

Hunter Mountain has foot rests on all of their lifts except D-Lift. D-Lift is a very early POMA triple chair built in 1966. Back then, I do not think that they knew how to put foot rests on triples, only on doubles.

[DonaldMReif]

floridaskier, on 05 January 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Seems to mostly be a question of cost. The Park City resorts are a good example, with footrests corresponding to each mountain's personality and spending habits. Deer Valley naturally has footrests on every lift, except the two beginner doubles. Park City has footrests on the important lifts - the four six packs and Crescent, safety bars on King Con (also an important long lift, but from previous administration), First Time (the beginner lift), Pioneer and Town Lift (CTEC triples from the 80s, bars are new from ~5 years ago), and Three Kings (2011 Doppeltec terrain park lift), and nothing at all on the rest for the hardcore skiers. The four six packs were installed without footrests, but got them added in the early 2000s (the old safety bars come out on Payday in the summer). The Canyons has only installed one lift with footrests in their 17 seasons: Orange Bubble Express, where they spared no expense with electric seat heaters, 150 automatic bubble chairs made in Germany, midstation, full automatic chair parking at the top, custom Uni-G orange glass, fancy lift shacks, water evacuation, orange leather seats. Midstations don't rule out footrests - the bubble chair has a midstation that has enough clearance to handle footrests down, since the bubbles close automatically if nobody is on the chair. The Iron Mountain Express installed the same year has orange seats too, but no footrests. The rest of their lifts were installed in the days when ASC was running out of money in the early 2000s - mostly bottom drive, no footrests, used fixed grips instead of the planned new detaches. The only other lifts that have footrests there didn't begin life under the ASC administration - the twice-relocated Dreamscape (former Saddleback from the Wolf Mountain days and Raptor CTEC fixed quads at The Canyons) and Day Break (Yan triple which began life as Wasatch and then Quincy at Deer Valley). The other footrest trivia from The Canyons is that the Lookout/Short Cut lift was installed used without footrests, then received surplus Deer Valley Yan chairs with footrests, then got new CTEC chairs without footrests a couple years ago.

That does explain why the original Tombstone high speed quad's chairs received footrests when it became the Sunshine Express lift.

Cost vs. convenience and practicality seems to have also factored in at a number of other areas in Colorado when it comes to footrests. Every high speed quad I've seen (except for those four at Winter Park, and Coney Glade at Snowmass) and every high speed six pack (except the Christie Peak Express) has footrests. It's mostly a matter of what other lifts besides those get footrests.

On fixed grip lifts, I've seen:

Steamboat decided to go the extra mile and have safety bars with footrests installed with Burgess Creek.

The two lifts at Arapahoe Basin with footrests are Lenawee Mountain and the Zuma quad.

Crested Butte has footrests on all four high speed quads and both fixed grip quads.

Telluride has footrests on all of their high speed quads (save the Chondola), plus the Revelation fixed grip quad and the Apex and Plunge triples.

[skierdude9450]

It seems like the majority of lifts in the Tahoe area don't have footrests for whatever reason. Also Loveland has never installed a lift with any sort of bar.

[DonaldMReif]

There are a few Squaw Valley high speed lifts with footrests - at the very least the Headwall Express and the Squaw One Express do.

Outside of that, you've actually got two high speed quads at Northstar equipped with footrests - the Martis Camp Express and the Village Express lift.

[JSteigs]

DonaldMReif, on 05 January 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

There are a few Squaw Valley high speed lifts with footrests - at the very least the Headwall Express and the Squaw One Express do.

Bailey's beach (fixed triple) has them, and maybe Emigrant (also fixed triple).

[liftmech]

snoloco, on 04 January 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Is there any rhyme or reason to order a lift with or without foot rest equipped safety bars? Factors I can come up with as to why get a lift without them are cost, clearance (for lifts with mid stations), and weight on the line. Two reasons to get a lift with foot rests are comfort and safety (harder to slide out under the safety bar). Are these reasons correct?

In my experience bars don't add much weight to the line. Mine weigh about 20 pounds, maybe 25. Guest comfort would be the main factor. I remember when the only lift at Crystal (WA) with a footrest was the excruciatingly long chair 5, which was a 15-minute ride at its fastest. I repeat my usual assertation that there really isn't any added safety with these bars.

[DonaldMReif]

I believe you can add the West Buttermilk Express to that small number of high speed quads in Colorado without footrests, based on Street View imagery from February 2012. However, photos from www.coloradoskihistory.com taken in 2005 seem to show that the lift originally had footrests when built. In contrast, the Tiehack Express lift and Summit Express lift both have footrests, likely due to their length.

[SkiDaBird]

A little off topic, but can anyone explain the "teeth" at Alta. If a tourist forgets to announce "bar down" it's a rather unpleasant ride up...

[SkiKC]

I have seen bars on just about every HSQ I've ever ridden on, in my opinion they make the ride much more comfortable.
However, does anyone know what the deal with the Black Mountain Express in A-Basin? It has the standard bars, but a fancy "Kid-Stop" gizmo instead of the foot bars. Is this just because of the age of guests riding, or was there some other factor as to why BME doesn't have footrests but does have bars?

[vons]

Simple answer footrests cost more, the lift is short so a foot rest is not critical to occupant comfort and everyone rides it so some kind on phonological aid is needed, plus, being kid friendly keeps paranoid parents from having panic attacks

This post has been edited by vons: 24 March 2014 - 02:52 PM

[snoloco]

At Windham Mountain, everything has footrests except the K-Lift which is a very short CTEC triple that is only 400 feet long, and the East Peak Express which is a 3,500 foot long HSQ with a 3.5 minute ride. These two lifts have the shortest ride times on the mountain, so footrests definitely were a comfort item on their longer lifts. Also, the original Wonderama lift was a Carlevaro Savio double. CTEC converted it to a triple at some point, although I don't know the exact year. These chairs had footrests as well as the original double chairs. The Whiteway Triple was built in 1984 by Von Roll, but with Hall chairs. These did not have footrests. In 2006 when the East Peak Express was installed, they removed the original East Peak lift which was the Why Not Triple. This 1987 CTEC was used to replace the Wonderama Triple. It has footrests. When the original Wonderama chair was removed, the CTEC chairs were relocated to the Whiteway Triple, so now it has footrests.