14 replies to this topic

[trooper1556]

From: http://www.denverpos...-expansion-plan
Quote: Arapahoe Basin goes steep with 412-acre expansion plan for ski area

The backcountry terrain known as the "Beavers" outside the boundary of Arapahoe Basin, in 2005. (THE DENVER POST | SCOTT WILLOUGHBY)
KEYSTONE — Arapahoe Basin on Wednesday unveiled a long-term master development plan that includes lift-served skiing in the dangerous steeps known as The Beavers just beyond its operating boundary.

The meeting in Keystone was the first step in what will likely be a several-year federal review process as the 900-acre, high-alpine ski area sculpts its future.

And the future looks steep.

With a 4,200-foot lift that climbs 1,500 vertical feet over daunting cliffs and precipitous conifer glades, Arapahoe Basin's growth plan would add 412 acres and put it alongside North America's most revered big-mountain playgrounds, like Jackson Hole, Alta, Crested Butte and Squaw Valley.

But it's not a push for more skiers. The master plan - which includes a year-round zip line course and utilitarian additions like a short surface lift, expanded snowmaking capacity and chairlift replacement - would accommodate a mere 360 additional daily skiers at Arapahoe Basin.

It's about creating a fuller, safer ski experience, said the ski area's chief, Alan Henceroth, noting that several new intermediate blue runs will surround the steep new terrain.

On the big screen at Wednesday's meeting, Henceroth showed an aerial winter photograph of the now out-of-bounds "Steep Gullies" area of the The Beavers. The near vertical fingers of snow tumbling down rock-lined gullies are so carved with ski tracks it looks just like the open terrain across the boundary rope.

"This place already functions like a ski area. It is lift-served out-of-bounds skiing. It's in the ski area in every way except it's not," said Henceroth. "We think what we are proposing is not really a change from what it is now."

Six people have died in avalanches in The Beavers in the last three decades, five of them in the Steep Gullies. One attendee at Thursday's meeting said the area was not just double-black diamond terrain but "more like triple black."

The area's dark history is an impetus to incorporating the terrain into the boundary, which Arapahoe Basin's founders imagined more than 50 years ago as part of the ski area. The Steep Gullies would be hike-out accessible under the expansion plan and ski patrollers would mitigate avalanche risk on the vertiginous slopes.

"It's really time we make this part of the ski area and put it in a real, bona fide snow management program," said Henceroth, noting that his ski patrollers regularly join local search and rescue personnel in venturing into the terrain for rescues "at great personal risk."

"It's really time that we as a community do something about it," he said.

The Beavers terrain is inside Arapahoe Basin's Special Use Permit boundary and is zoned for skiing under the Forest Service's 2002 land and resource management plan for the White River National Forest, the most skied national forest in the country. That 2002 plan recommended that ski areas propose expansion when surging visits support growth. Arapahoe Basin in the last decade has added new lifts, new terrain and a mid-mountain lodge as its visits have grown from an average of 235,000 in the 1990s to an average near 400,000, with a peak of 450,000 in 2010-11.

Wednesday's public meeting is what the Forest Service calls "front loading" a growth proposal. Gathering public input early in the master development plan — or MDP — process helps hone a final proposal. It will then undergo intensive federal environmental review — an Environmental Impact Statement, or an EIS — under the National Environmental Policy Act.

"If there are any red flags, they will come up through the MDP process," said Shelly Grail Braudis, snow ranger for the Dillon Ranger District of the White River National Forest. "At some I point I see this moving through an EIS once we finish this acceptance process and see what we want to see in the MDP and make sure as much thought as possible is going into this plan."

Cale Osbourne, a sergeant in charge of special operations for the Summit County Sheriff's Office, said he scrambles his squad for rescues in The Beavers "a handful" of times each winter. Having the area as part of the ski terrain could reduce risks for his team.

"We do like the added snow safety program and the added personnel," he said. "When we do go out there, that added component of having that ski patroller there, it makes our response that much better."

Jason Blevins: 303-954-1374, jblevins@denverpost.com or twitter.com/jasontblevins

Arapahoe basin's proposed master development plan

* A zipline course from mid-mountain to the base, open year-round.

* Increased capacity for two on-mountain reservoirs, possible doubling snowmaking.

* A rope tow surface lift between the Lenawee and Zuma chairlifts.

* Replacing the fixed-grip, double chair Pallavicini chair with a new fixed-grip double.

* Removing the Norway chairlift.

* Installing 4,200-foot Beaver chairlift, capable of carrying 1,800 people up 1,500 vertical feet to summit, adding 412 acres of new terrain, including 140 acres of hike-to terrain, with advanced tree skiing and intermediate runs.

* Plan would increase area's "comfortable carrying capacity" 9 percent, from 3,780 skiers to 4,140. Lift capacity would increase 7 percent.

[boardski]

I have skied A Basin for many years as have most people who have lived and skied in Colorado for any length of time. All of that sounds good. Can't picture where "The Beavers are" but a terrain expansion is always exciting at the smaller areas. A new Pallivicini lift is probably a good idea since the lift is heavily used during good snow years and is not getting any younger. Removing Norway though is going to put a lot of traffic on Lenawee on weekends and holidays. A lift project that would solve these two issues is to upgrade/replace Lenawee with a detatchable quad and relocate the current fixed-grip triple to replace Pallavicini. This project would eliminate the need for Norway for sure. Another good place for a rope tow is the traverse to the double-black bowls from the top of Zuma. Could be interesting years ahead, I just hope the snow keeps coming. I'm not liking this record-setting heat.

[102Terry]

I disagree,

Leave A-Basin alone. Expanding terrain for blue and green runs are fine, but expanding it to the Beavers will just get Texans injured. The hike to terrain is the perfect deterrent for people that shouldn't be there in the first place. .02

[liftmech]

I can see Henceroth's point, though. SRG goes in there multiple times each winter, and about every other year there's an avalanche fatality. Allowing ABSP to control the area will definitely reduce those issues. As for the rest of the upgrades noted, Norway and Pali are both '78 Yans. Norway doesn't have near the hours since the new Lenawee went in, but it's still an older lift.

[jaytrem]

This other article mention the Norway lift would be replaced with a surface lift. It's not clear to me exactly what's going on with that part of the plan....

http://www.summitdai...entProfile=1055

Quote from article:

The new Master Plan, which went public for the first time Wednesday, also proposes the removal of the 35-year-old Norway Lift which would be replaced by the surface lift.
“The demand for the Norway lift is not high, the new surface lift with expand the capacity of skiers while spreading them out on the mountain,” Henceroth said.

[Lift Dinosaur]

jay-
The removal of Norway is just that. The 'replacement surface lift' is from the top of Lenawee to Top of Zuma so you don't have to skate uphill.
Also...the picture in the Summit Daily looks like "The Professor" to me...not "The Beavers". The Professor is on the East side of the highway across from The Basin main parking lot.
Dino

[liftmech]

Good catch Dino. Nice to know the local fishwrap is still getting it right.

[jaytrem]

Lift Dinosaur, on 31 August 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

jay-
The removal of Norway is just that. The 'replacement surface lift' is from the top of Lenawee to Top of Zuma so you don't have to skate uphill.
Also...the picture in the Summit Daily looks like "The Professor" to me...not "The Beavers". The Professor is on the East side of the highway across from The Basin main parking lot.
Dino

Got it, thanks. I did manage to find a (small) plan map this morning...

http://summitcountyv...-at-open-house/

[boardski]

I am also noticing Molly Hogan marked for replacement, although I am sure none of us spend much time on that lift unless we are teaching someone. Maybe a conveyor or two might be a better lift for that area instead of the chairlift. It seems rather silly to spend resources maintaining a chairlift that is that short. A- Basin is not really known for having signature beginner terrain anyway. Most people seem to opt for the steeps, deeps, and wide-open bowls.

[skier2]

boardski, on 01 September 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I am also noticing Molly Hogan marked for replacement, although I am sure none of us spend much time on that lift unless we are teaching someone. Maybe a conveyor or two might be a better lift for that area instead of the chairlift. It seems rather silly to spend resources maintaining a chairlift that is that short. A- Basin is not really known for having signature beginner terrain anyway. Most people seem to opt for the steeps, deeps, and wide-open bowls.

What A-Basin should really do is get rid of the Molly Hogan area altogether then create a new beginner area at mid-mountain running from the top of exhibition down between the runs that go to the base and the runs that access Lenawee. They could install a longer chair there and then beginners could choose to either take the 1 or 2 greens running from mid-mountain to the bottom or download on Exhibition if its built to handle downloading

[DonaldMReif]

skier2, on 01 September 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

What A-Basin should really do is get rid of the Molly Hogan area altogether then create a new beginner area at mid-mountain running from the top of exhibition down between the runs that go to the base and the runs that access Lenawee. They could install a longer chair there and then beginners could choose to either take the 1 or 2 greens running from mid-mountain to the bottom or download on Exhibition if its built to handle downloading

1. It's called Black Mountain now, no offense intended.
2. I'm not sure about space management, or where space for this proposed learning area could be.

I for one would probably support having Lenawee upgraded to an HSQ, so that top-to-bottom runs on the front slopes (minus Pallavicini) could be possible on fast lifts.

[boardski]

The best terrain for that mid-mountain beginner area would be the run that continues to toward the base after passing the bottom of Lenawee. The problem would be never-evers crossing the entrance to the Lenawee lift to get to the beginner area. The only other terrain up there I can think of are Sundance, which is fairly advanced for a beginner run or those glades which people should definately have a pretty good idea of what they are doing before skiing or riding in there. Of course if they remove Norway and Lenawee to install a new Lenawee HSQ, the bottom terminal could always be moved to accommodate a new beginner area of this type and prevent the intersection from being a cluster. I used the above mentioned terrain to teach my Daughter when she was a beginner and would teather her past the bottom of Lenawee and around the left turn onto the gentle learning terrain. We progressed from Molly Hogan pretty quick, there is just not enough there to really practice any turning skills.

[DonaldMReif]

boardski, on 15 September 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

The best terrain for that mid-mountain beginner area would be the run that continues to toward the base after passing the bottom of Lenawee. The problem would be never-evers crossing the entrance to the Lenawee lift to get to the beginner area. The only other terrain up there I can think of are Sundance, which is fairly advanced for a beginner run or those glades which people should definately have a pretty good idea of what they are doing before skiing or riding in there. Of course if they remove Norway and Lenawee to install a new Lenawee HSQ, the bottom terminal could always be moved to accommodate a new beginner area of this type and prevent the intersection from being a cluster. I used the above mentioned terrain to teach my Daughter when she was a beginner and would teather her past the bottom of Lenawee and around the left turn onto the gentle learning terrain. We progressed from Molly Hogan pretty quick, there is just not enough there to really practice any turning skills.

Seconded. Lifts like Quicksilver Super6 and Lift A at Breckenridge will fit your daughter better. The greens off the Peru Express at Keystone also might be good for her.

[boardski]

DonaldMReif, on 17 September 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Seconded. Lifts like Quicksilver Super6 and Lift A at Breckenridge will fit your daughter better. The greens off the Peru Express at Keystone also might be good for her.

I was actually referring to a number of years ago. She has since progressed to skiing the steeps and deeps with me, I was relating the example for others who are learning the sport at A-Basin. Thanks though.
That area (just below Lenawee) worked well when she was learing to ski, although I used a teather to guide through the busy areas such as crossing the entrance for Lenawee. Not everyone uses teathers although I am seeing more of them. Eventually the teather must be removed and the student must learn independence in a good section of the mountain which is wide open without hot-doggers flying down the middle of the trail in a tuck. That section of the run fits that critera.

Although, we are still working on her right turn on the snowboard, those might be good runs for that. We'll probably opt for Lumberjack chair at Copper or Lift 3 to midway at Loveland Valley. Also similar beginner areas good for practicing turning without feeling like one is driving in rush hour traffic.

Anyway, back to topic: how about installing another longer conveyor belt lift to replace Molly Hogan for first timers and move Norway chair to start at the top of the Sundance and Wagon Ho Junction (just before the trail steepens up) and end at Black Mountain Lodge. The only problem there is it is difficult to download a lift which has 90* loading (such as BME). They would still have an old Yan to upkeep but at least it would be a little more useful and the run would offer more room and length to make more than 3 turns. This would be a good phase to implement AFTER the Lenawee HSQ upgrade and current FGT Lenawee relocation to Pallavacini line.

Excting times, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 10 seasons. The biggest thing we need now is snow.

This post has been edited by boardski: 17 September 2012 - 06:49 PM

[DonaldMReif]

boardski, on 17 September 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I was actually referring to a number of years ago. She has since progressed to skiing the steeps and deeps with me, I was relating the example for others who are learning the sport at A-Basin. Thanks though.
That area (just below Lenawee) worked well when she was learing to ski, although I used a teather to guide through the busy areas such as crossing the entrance for Lenawee. Not everyone uses teathers although I am seeing more of them. Eventually the teather must be removed and the student must learn independence in a good section of the mountain which is wide open without hot-doggers flying down the middle of the trail in a tuck. That section of the run fits that critera.

Although, we are still working on her right turn on the snowboard, those might be good runs for that. We'll probably opt for Lumberjack chair at Copper or Lift 3 to midway at Loveland Valley. Also similar beginner areas good for practicing turning without feeling like one is driving in rush hour traffic.

Anyway, back to topic: how about installing another longer conveyor belt lift to replace Molly Hogan for first timers and move Norway chair to start at the top of the Sundance and Wagon Ho Junction (just before the trail steepens up) and end at Black Mountain Lodge. The only problem there is it is difficult to download a lift which has 90* loading (such as BME). They would still have an old Yan to upkeep but at least it would be a little more useful and the run would offer more room and length to make more than 3 turns. This would be a good phase to implement AFTER the Lenawee HSQ upgrade and current FGT Lenawee relocation to Pallavacini line.

Excting times, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 10 seasons. The biggest thing we need now is snow.

I think I'll stick with Keystone for now. I like the big places, and the ability to see the Zuma lift in Montezuma Bowl from the Montezuma Express lift.