10 replies to this topic

[Don Coyote®]

The property owner of my Private Ski/Snowboard Resort wants my/our T-Bar to be able to pass a Michigan State inspection.


..... (I'm not certain exactly why).




I haven't asked him yet, if he plans to open the hills to the public..... but I really don't think that's coming any time soon. (But a fine fantasy for the future, however).

So, does anyone out there know what all the legal hoops I need to jump through to make my Antique T-Bar "Up To Code" ? I found a bunch of Stop-Switches on eBay that I plan on installing.... I know that's only a start. I'd like to get some information from chatting with folks in the industry before I even get NEAR a real Inspector..... that way i have a good start on knowing what to expect.


I'm finishing up my "Personal Home Projects" and am about to get back to working on the Lift and Hills, soon..... we are going to put some high milage on that T-Bar this coming season!!!


I can't wait.

[skier691]

Don
The biggest thing is the fact that the lift hasnt been certified in the last decade.....this will mean that it will have to be brought up to current codes, no grandfathering allowed.

[C W Craven]

This may sound a little wierd to you but I would call the state.
Mr. Mark Dolman runs the program.
(I don't have his number handy as it is 2 am on the west coast where I am)

Start a conversation with the AHJ (authority having jursdiction)early into your project, you can certanly ask questions and BTW get answers before any "regulation" is envoked.

I don't know if Michigan regulates private lifts. Even if Michigan does't regulate private lifts, I am cerrtian Mark can answer some questions for you, he is a great resource and is on the B77 committee.

C W

This post has been edited by C W Craven: 10 July 2011 - 01:25 AM

[Kelly]

To add to other info
After an exhausting search I have found Michigan’s tramway board is officially called….Licensing and Regulatory Affairs…Michigan Ski Area Safety Board.
Licensing switchboard is (517) 373-1820...ask for Ski Area Safety Board.
Doman also oversees the amusement rides and is a licensed engineer…be sure to ask for his work schedule as he may only be in the office a few days a week.
Web page link to last 5 years of Tramway Board’s minutes of meetings…it is free and worth reading.
http://www.dleg.stat...Meeting+Minutes
Doman will probably suggest you get a current copy and adopted copies of the latest tramway code book and start to speak to you in “code speak” mentioning specific codes…These come from ANSI B-77 ropeway standards (the term code is not used).
NSAA sells the B77 Standard - their home page is: http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/home/
NSAA stands for National Ski Areas Association – an ownership interest group.
B77 “Standards Books” are listed here: http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/technical/
The 2011 Standard is finished and I suspect Michigan will be voting of the adoption of it shortly.
The B77 is copyrighted material but here is a small overview that Colorado does:
http://www.dora.stat...ullRulebook.pdf
And
http://www.dora.stat...rules/rules.htm
Each gives a good idea of the B77 and what the “reference number" is.

[Don Coyote®]

C W Craven, on 10 July 2011 - 01:23 AM, said:

This may sound a little wierd to you but I would call the state.
Mr. Mark Dolman runs the program.
(I don't have his number handy as it is 2 am on the west coast where I am)

Start a conversation with the AHJ (authority having jursdiction)early into your project, you can certanly ask questions and BTW get answers before any "regulation" is envoked.

I don't know if Michigan regulates private lifts. Even if Michigan does't regulate private lifts, I am cerrtian Mark can answer some questions for you, he is a great resource and is on the B77 committee.

C W

I changed employers about seven years ago, and the previous shop I worked at..... I was the "Safety Administrator" for about ten years. I was the "Go-Between" between MIOSHA and the Boss. I learned early on that it is best to get all the information that I need BEFORE I speak with a governing authority. (And then play stupid).

I don't feel that this "Private" resort is at any risk of any governing body, but it IS certainly a good idea (simply for the sake of Feng-Shui) of having this lift in PROPER operating order. Hell,..... I don't feel the least bit uncomfortable NOT having "Safety Stops" in place..... I feel that myself and anyone who uses this lift KNOWS how to avoid trouble in it's use. But obvioulsy it is a good idea to have these, even if they may never get used. (I just ordered ten brand new safety-stop switches from eBay). PLUS, having proper knowledge of current operational codes NOW , would give us a proper level of technological management experience for when/if we ever get to open the hills to the public.

So if anyone can forsee any specific issues that may arise in a conversation with a state regulator..... these ideas/assumptions would be greatly appreciated!

This post has been edited by Don Coyote®: 10 July 2011 - 04:30 PM

[Don Coyote®]

Thanks a bunch Kelly,..... I'm gonna tell "Joe" to buy me the hardcover copy of ANSI B77, I just found it, online. (With your assistance, of course).

http://global.ihs.co...&lang_code=ENGL

This post has been edited by Don Coyote®: 10 July 2011 - 04:40 PM

[Tramway Guy]

Mr. Coyote: The advice to get Mark Doman involved is right on. Also, the advice to purchase the standard directly from the NSAA will save you at least $15 or more than from the site you listed on one of your posts.

You will find the Ski Area Safety board is much different from your experiences with OSHA.

I cannot believe you would order 10 stop-switches from E-Bay, without knowing whether they are suitable for your application. If they are not exact duplicates of what is already on the lift, you will need an Engineer to design or at least specify what you need.

Before you waste money in an effort to 'streamline' the process, better find out what you need. And you will not find it all in a book, no matter how thick it is.

[Don Coyote®]

I have another question........


Would it be a GOOD idea, or a BAD idea to give the rope-wire a good coating of axle grease?

Would the grease adversely affect the rubber on the bullwheels/sheaves?

After very "up-close" inspection of the rope, I find that it looks a bit old. Not bad,... just aged. I think a light cover of grease would be very beneficial.


We removed all the hangers. There are two missing... (likely went to treasure-hunters)... so we were going to loosen them up and move them all together in equal spacing. But when we started to move them, we discovered that they were in DIRE need of grease, so we removed them all to go over them real good with heavy lube. Now that we have them all off, I think I want to repaint them and ... as i mentioned... grease the rope.

Should I grease the rope?

[Lift Dinosaur]

You DO NOT want to grease the haul rope or use a heavy lubricant like they might use in underground mining. You want to use a wire rope lubricant (Castor Oil, Vita Life, etc). What's your closest ski area? Call them and ask them what they use..and see if you can buy a gallon. A gallon should last a lifetime on a small rope. You do not want to over lubricate the rope - it could cause slippage on the bullwheels and also deterioration of the rubber liners. 2 light applications a few months apart is better than 1 heavy application.
If the wires of the cable look oxidized, that's not bad; a light lube and operation will clean that up. If is starting to "rust", you may want to run the lift slow while you have all the carriers off and hit it with a wire brush for a few laps.
As for greasing the grips and hangers- the best to use is a crown and chassis type grease. Nothing too heavy.
Dino

This post has been edited by Lift Dinosaur: 18 July 2011 - 04:15 PM

[Don Coyote®]

Thanks, Dino.......

The cable looks real good. It's not exactly "rusty" or corroded, but it looks a bit dry and just plain OLD.

Now, the POMA lift that I started working on a decade ago on the other side of the hill..... THAT cable looks like it could snap on my first ride up. It's rusty and brittle and scary looking. (But I still intend to finish it and see how far it gets me).

I've seen rubber wheels deteriorate pretty bad when exposed to oils. (Particularly band saws, steel drive wheels with rubber coatings..... they go to Hell when soaked with oil). I wasn't sure if this particular grade of rubber would react the same. I thought it may be MADE to be oil-resistant.


Hey, skier691 ..... you think you can get me a gallon of whatever it is that YOU GUYS use? (I'll pay regular price if I can).

[Lift Dinosaur]

...speaking of "rubber wheels" or sheave liners, what kind of shape are they in? There are 2 kinds of wear- groove depth caused by running and UV damage caused by sitting in the sun for too long. This usually appears as cracks that run perpendicular to the lift line. If they get deep enough (the bottom of the liner) they will start to eject themselves in small pieces and eventually you can loose the whole liner.
Something to keep an eye on while it's T-Shirt weather!
Dino