19 replies to this topic

[vermonter]

Hi,
I'm lookiing for help on building a rope tow. So far I have everything I need. But I'm not sure if it would work. My engine is a gasoline powered 8 hp suzuki lawnmower. Thanks for all help in advanced.

This post has been edited by vermonter: 17 May 2011 - 12:00 PM

[Bogong]

Well how ambitious will your lift be? If you plan a short lift (under 100 metres) on ground that isn't too steep, you can just anchor the engine at one end and the bull wheel at the other end and run an unsupported cable between the two. You can buy lifts like this off the shelf for a reasonable price.

But if you want a decent length lift on a decent gradient you will need to install posts to support pulleys that hold the rope above the snow and a safety line that will shut down the engine if pulled.

You will also need a way of attaching passengers to the rope because they can't hang on to a rope on a steep slope with just their hands and even on a gentle slope their fingers will be crushed where the rope goes over pulleys. In this part of the world we use "Nutcrackers" to do that.

Putting in proper nutcracker tow can be a big operation, but they can serve any slope you like, right up to mile long double black diamond runs which is why they are so popular with small ski fields in Australia and New Zealand. Here is a good summary of their operation. http://www.powderhou...r-Ropetows.aspx

[vermonter]

Bogong, on 28 March 2011 - 03:05 PM, said:

Well how ambitious will your lift be? If you plan a short lift (under 100 metres) on ground that isn't too steep, you can just anchor the engine at one end and the bull wheel at the other end and run an unsupported cable between the two. You can buy lifts like this off the shelf for a reasonable price.

But if you want a decent length lift on a decent gradient you will need to install posts to support pulleys that hold the rope above the snow and a safety line that will shut down the engine if pulled.

You will also need a way of attaching passengers to the rope because they can't hang on to a rope on a steep slope with just their hands and even on a gentle slope their fingers will be crushed where the rope goes over pulleys. In this part of the world we use "Nutcrackers" to do that.

Putting in proper nutcracker tow can be a big operation, but they can serve any slope you like, right up to mile long double black diamond runs which is why they are so popular with small ski fields in Australia and New Zealand. Here is a good summary of their operation. http://www.powderhou...r-Ropetows.aspx

The lift is about 450 ft long. so I'm hoping to have 6 or 7 towers. I have a tree at the top, so that's my anchor. The line isn't that steep. about a 10-12 degree pitch, so no that steep. But any insights on using a lawnmower?

[Bogong]

Well if it's not too steep, then it's possible to hang onto the rope with just your hands, avoiding the need for a cable gripping gadget like a "nutcracker". One way to make riding the lift easier, is to clamp plastic handles to the rope in such a way that they can pass around the bullwheel. I've seen an ancient Harusch "Handle Tow" in operation and it's certainly easier to use than just grabbing onto a rope.

If it's not too long, you don't need towers to hold the rope off the ground, instead let the rope dip into the snow. While this will increase friction, it's a lot easier and simpler than installing poles with pulleys as shown in the link in my previous post. No poles also means passengers can grab hold of the rope for the whole journey (as long as it's not steep), thus avoiding the need for a nutcracker (or similar gadget) to grip the cable. Once you install poles, the whole thing get VASTLY more complicated, in the sense of both installing it and riding it.

You'll need a mechanic to discuss adapting a lawnmower engine to run your lift, as that's outside my area of expertise, but there are many fine mechanics on this forum.

Here is a link to an "off the shelf" rope tow. http://www.skiliftportabletow.com/ It's North American, but I've seen one of these operating that has been imported to Australia and it works quite well. Even if you don't buy it, the video clip will give you an idea of how back yard rope tows work.



^ A Handle Tow



^ A close up of a pole supporting pulleys. As you can see, there is no way you can hold on to the cable here without a rope gripping gadget

This post has been edited by Bogong: 28 March 2011 - 04:54 PM

[vermonter]

Thanks for the help! I have a much better insight on where I'm going now. Now any mechanics out there that can tell me if a lawnmower would work. Thanks in advanced again.

[Don Coyote®]

How well equipped are you to make this contraption?

Do you HAVE ,.... or do you HAVE ACCESS TO a welding machine, a metal-cutting saw or torch, perhaps a lathe and a bridgeport mill, and a stockpile of angle-iron, plate steel or other scraps?

Is your engine a vertical or a horizontal shaft engine?


.....Or are you working with materials out of your garage?


I think we need a bit more information from you......... what do you do for a living? Have you had much experience in engineering?




I think a 7-1/2hp engine would be okay for a small operation, are you planning to use OTHER parts of the mower in your design? I suppose that if you were to use the back wheel as the main bullwheel and were to put it in it's fastest gear..... it might work. However, it may need some sturdy upgrading..... new bearings... a larger wheel-hub......... lawn-mowers aren't built very rigid.




Any chance of you uploading some sketches of your blueprints? (If you've made any). You're not in Michigan, are you? (Considering that your name is "Vermonter",..... I would assume not).

This post has been edited by Don Coyote®: 28 March 2011 - 06:05 PM

[vermonter]

I apologize for the late reply, I've been jumping around the country and world lately on business.
So to answer you questions Don:

I have plenty of welding materials and angle iron for my use.

My engine is a 8 hp Suzuki Engine.

I'm willing to buy some materials but my goal is to stay under $700

I'm a NYSE Stoke Broker, I've been traveling to foreign markets and around the country to talk to investors.

I have a pretty good engineering background.

I've decided to take the blade off, then replace it with a really small in diameter wheel, with a belt going to a bigger wheel, which will be attached to a bike wheel to pull the rope up.

And congratulations! You guessed my location

[Don Coyote®]

I have 200 shares of Sirius/XM, 4000 shares of Zap (ZAAP) and 500 shares of Advanced Batteries (ABAT).

They're my retirement fund.



.....Is this a push-mower, or a rider?

At the moment, all I can picture is ... a wheel in place of the mower blade of a push-mower..... and this doesn't sit well with me. You'll need a clutch, or some other way of engaging the rope AFTER the engine has been started. (Otherwise, you may not be able to start the engine if the rope is ALWAYS in gear).

But I wouldn't think an 8hp Suzuki would be mounted on a push-mower.


Is your main drive wheel going to be horizontal or vertical? I would suggest vertical, but you need to build it with whatever supplies that you already have available to you, ..... and you know better than I do in that area.

Do you have pics of whatever you have put together, so far? (That would be very helpful).

[Don Coyote®]

Hey,..... I just had a random thought.............


I wonder if a snowmobile clutch, mounted on the bottom of a vertical-shaft engine would give just the right amount of torque to move your rope? I'll bet that single pulley would be all you would need..... considering that your rope would be thick enough to "grab" when the clutch engages.


Just a thought.

This post has been edited by Don Coyote®: 16 May 2011 - 05:59 PM

[vermonter]

Don Coyote®, on 16 May 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

I have 200 shares of Sirius/XM, 4000 shares of Zap (ZAAP) and 500 shares of Advanced Batteries (ABAT).

They're my retirement fund.



.....Is this a push-mower, or a rider?

At the moment, all I can picture is ... a wheel in place of the mower blade of a push-mower..... and this doesn't sit well with me. You'll need a clutch, or some other way of engaging the rope AFTER the engine has been started. (Otherwise, you may not be able to start the engine if the rope is ALWAYS in gear).

But I wouldn't think an 8hp Suzuki would be mounted on a push-mower.


Is your main drive wheel going to be horizontal or vertical? I would suggest vertical, but you need to build it with whatever supplies that you already have available to you, ..... and you know better than I do in that area.

Do you have pics of whatever you have put together, so far? (That would be very helpful).

My motor that I have is on a push mower. The mower is by toro. But My bull wheel is going to be horizontal. (As you said, work with what you have) My plan is to take of a bike's bake tire, replace it with a small one. then use the bikes gears for reducing. Th motor would be attach to the place where the pedals are normally hooked up.

About engaging the rope AFTER the engine has been started. This model mower has a special feature where you can control the blade speed. You can also operate the blade at 0 rpms, but still have the motor running. There is a lever on the mowers controls that controls th rpms on the blade. I can make the mower have low or high rpms. This way, it allows me to control speed precisely. Then I could slow the motor down, and shift the bike into higher gear, thus using less power to power the tow. I think I'll call the operation of Low RPM High Gear, Economy Mode!

But thats the whole design of my drive, minus some tensioning stuff.

[Don Coyote®]

That mower sounds interesting, in how you can control the rpm's..... but I worry about the bicycle gears. In my youth,...I built a 3-wheel go-kart out of bicycle frames and put a 3-1/2hp Briggs on it. I had trouble keeping the chain tight, so I put a 10-speed Derailler on it.... and it was nothing but trouble. Every time I would throttle back, the chain would wind around the derailler and get stuck. I suggest you do NOT use bicycle parts,..... go with motorcycle parts or better.

*Edit*..... actually, if you use a different design to tension the chain, your design with the bike gears might actually be adequate.

If you can give me the model number of this Toro mower, I can look it up and see exactly how it can work best to your(our) advantage.

This post has been edited by Don Coyote®: 17 May 2011 - 04:38 PM

[vermonter]

Thanks for your time Don.

But the mower is a Toro 20107 Recycler, I have searched this before but the models that come up are atound 5.5 hp. I do faintly remebering the ptevious owner say he chaged the engine fot his own application. But it's what I got. But if you find the 5.5 hp engine works better, I picked one up recently (today) just in case. About the bike gear situation. My dad is a retired cyclist. He used to race with Lance Armstrong for fun. So I think he'll be able to tension the chain. He also has many bike parts and gears etc; so I have my share of bike parts. I'm looking into ways to make grippers for the rope. I thought rope may work if you tied it on then left a piece dangling for grip?

But thanks for your help.

[Bogong]

Rope grippers (or "Nutcrackers") for rope tows are made in bulk and sold cheap in countries like New Zealand. You can buy one and have it posted to you in America and save yourself a lot of time and bother. Just attach it to an old climbing harness (or even a webbing belt) with a short length of old rope.

Here is an ad for one, available for $NZ 40 (about US $30) but there are lots for sale on other auction websites. http://www.completeo...arch=nutcracker

This post has been edited by Bogong: 17 May 2011 - 10:49 PM

[vermonter]

I have seen some of these for sale in the US for over $100! $30 for one from your side of the world seems like a much better deal. So far on the rope tow I have completed the trail the to will go go on, and a small side trail. Just need to clear a little brush on the tow line next to the main trail before O can install. Sorry Don that I don't have any pics yet of my building because I'm still on phase one, trail clearing and tow design.

This post has been edited by vermonter: 18 May 2011 - 05:23 PM

[vermonter]

Here is a link to my main trail, tow trail. As you can see, brush still needs to be moved.

m.flickr.com/photo.gne?id=5684844346&

This post has been edited by vermonter: 18 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

[vermonter]

Sorry for not posting, but here is a quick update.

So the tow trail is finally done, and I'm about to sink some money in to this project. My first part is removing the engine from the mower without losing the mower's control panel. Also, I'm debating whether to snag this rope, or get a bigger size. Ebay Rope Shipping is awfully high. I'm also working on the hut for the engine and controls. It's basically so it doesn't get ruined when it snows. Ohe top of the tow is near my drive way and may get plowed, since he doesn't know about the project. Any ideas? Build a fence. I don't want to dig it out to use it from 10 ft of snow.

Thanks for the help guys!

[Don Coyote®]

Take pics and post them occasionally, throughout the construction process..... and we can all throw ideas around as we watch it progress.

[vermonter]

Don Coyote®, on 06 June 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

Take pics and post them occasionally, throughout the construction process..... and we can all throw ideas around as we watch it progress.

You got it!

But there may not be to much progress in the coming week or so due to work, so don't expect anyhting too quick.

Thanks
Luke

[Lift Dinosaur]

I don't know much about Rope Tows (Other than they cost me a lot of gloves when I was in college) but that rope looks too small (diameter) to me and poly is going to be WAY slippery when it gets wet/snowy.
Cup your hand to 1/2" diameter and think what you can hold onto with mittens on - oh yea...the Nutcracker!!!
My $0.02
Dino

[vermonter]

Sorry for the hiatus. The project was almost killed when I inquired at the town hall whether it is legal or not to build a rope tow. At first they were very negative, and said I was not allowed to build one due to lack of operators insurance. I left that day a little discouraged. But I came back 10 days later or so, and inquired again and explained what the project was. They eventually said yes. So as of today I've started working on the project again I tested the engine to check for possible "flaws" and began my junkyard search. I also constructed a proto-type tension assembly that will help keep the rope from slipping while being used.

Dino Said:

Quote

I don't know much about Rope Tows (Other than they cost me a lot of gloves when I was in college) but that rope looks too small (diameter) to me and poly is going to be WAY slippery when it gets wet/snowy.Cup your hand to 1/2" diameter and think what you can hold onto with mittens on - oh yea...the Nutcracker!!!
My $0.02

Dino

To solve this I've invented a gripper that will clip on to the rope while in use. This allows you to hold on to rope even if it's 1/4"
Pictures to be posted later this evening or tomorrow.

Thanks for the help!
Luke