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Video showing start, run and stop sequences


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#1 Kelly

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:02 AM

Video showing start, run and stop sequences
Key working components explained

This topic is for the newer members, it shows the key components of a ropeway mechanical power transmitting system along with a video of start, run and stop sequences. This video shows a detachable ropeway motor room but the key components can also be found in most fixed grip ropeways - I believe this video was taken during acceptance testing.

Component Description – see image below
A – Acceleration or deceleration pulleys for the tires that move the grips – this bank of tires moves (conveys) then “accelerates” the grip to the same speed as the haulrope for a smooth attachment. The acceleration tires are usually powered by the main gearbox that turns a smaller gearbox (not seen) but also they can be powered by the haulrope, bullwheel, rope sheaves, or electric motors.
B – Brake disk – much like a car’s disk brake it can stop and or hold the ropeway from turning.
C – Coupling – This couples the electric motor to the gearbox – This style of coupling is called a universal joint and is very similar to a truck drive-line. The gearbox side of the coupling shaft is hidden by the brake disk. This driveline style allows for construction and operational misalignment and is balanced before use.
D – Brake – Much like a car’s disk brake – these grab the disk on both sides (image angle only shows one side), the brake looks small but is extremely powerful on a disk of this diameter. Possible reasons for two brakes are: engineering redundancy, manufacturer philosophy, code specifications, owner specifications or all of the above.
E – Electric motor – Specifically this shows the output shaft housing - the video will show the full length of the motor. The electric motor turns the coupling which then turns the gearbox input shaft.
G – Gearbox – Simply an enclosure full of gears and oil. The gearbox transmits the power to the bullwheel which then turns the haul rope. The gearbox also: changes the direction from the electric motor (most often a 90 degree turn inside the box), reduces the speed about 100X, and increases the torque. It can be compared to a single speed transmission in a car. Also it can be called a speed reducer or gear reducer because it reduces the speed of the electric motor. This style of gearbox is called planetary (gear arrangement resembles the sun and planets); a smaller example of planetary gearing is used on a battery drill found in your local hardware store.
R – Directly under the letter “R” is the radiator for the secondary power input to the gearbox. The secondary or auxiliary power system is usually a combustion engine that has a similar coupling system to the gearbox as the electric motor. It is used if the power or controls for the electric motor are not available for normal use such as in a power outage.

Additional nomenclature and descriptions can also be found at Skilifts.org Glossary Page http://www.skilifts....ld/glossary.htm
Attached File  Motor-room-vid-capture.jpg (49.89K)
Number of downloads: 60

Video description at each time period
For a full appreciation of actual sound you should turn up your sound as high as it will go…talking is quite difficult inside of a motor room.
:00-05 – Much of the sound throughout video is masked by the cooling fan of the electric motor that can be clearly heard in this time period, also heard is the startup warning beep beep.
:06 – Brake release can be seen if you closely watch the pads (pads open less than ¼”) and the hum from the electric motor (almost sounds like a horn rather than hum).
:07 – The driveline briefly turns the opposite way just after the brake pads release – this indicates the ropeway is under a full load – most ropeways have a “one-way” brake and or fine motor controls that will not allow this to happen– either these were disconnected for acceptance testing or not needed for this design.
:08 – The disk will turn in its normal rotation – the technician has pushed start then the “full speed button” almost simultaneously, the ropeway accelerates to full speed from this point
:10 – The accelerator pulleys can now see to be turning – they turn around 100X slower than the electric motor
:10-18 – Electric motor sound increases
:18 – Gearbox sounds are just becoming audible – these are the gears that spin the fastest that you hear – accelerator pulley turning is now easy to see.
:18-38 – Acceleration phase to top speed is almost complete
:39 – Lower speed gears in the gearbox can now be heard as a low rumble tone
:40 – Camera pans across the electric motor – the smooth shroud past the motor fins is the cooling fan housing
:39-44 Top (normal) speed, the haulrope speed is about 1000’ every minute or 17 per second – notice the accelerator pulley speeds
:45 - 46 – A stop is initiated – the ropeway is just beginning to decelerate – no lower or intermediate speed is selected, the ropeway will decelerate until it stops
:50 – Accelerator pulleys are turning very slow at this point – in most respects the ropeway will seemed to be stopped.
:51-52 – The ropeway has now stopped, slowing from 17 f/sec to zero…the “stopping distance” takes around 30’ and 4 seconds if you were riding this ropeway.
:52 – The brakes now grab the disk (a clunk can be heard - small pad movement can be seen) just after the disk stops turning – the brakes in this case do not slow the ropeway, most deceleration is done by the load and or the electric motor – think of driving a large truck uphill…as soon as you remove your foot from the gas pedal the truck quickly slows then stops, the brakes are only needed to hold the truck from going downhill.
:53- end – You can just hear another clunk – this can be the gearbox gears “accepting” the load from the ropeway and/or the accelerator drive train accepting the load…or someone dropping a wrench. :smile:

This video comes from YouTube poster Stahlseil (steel rope in German) – he has a number of clear videos featuring European ropeway machinery that are worth the look.
Video link:

www.ropetech.org

#2 Aussierob

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 09:23 AM

Two notes - I see there is no provision for a drive shaft guard, unless it has been removed. This is required in Canada. The high pitch squeal or whine you can hear is the switching fequency of the drives power electronics. Note it's louder at lower speeds.
Rob
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#3 Kelly

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 02:57 PM

Thanks Rob for the info – pretty sure this was taken during acceptance testing so no guard in place…
www.ropetech.org

#4 rniemi

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:35 PM

That's the first time I've seen an SEW-built AC induction motor appear on a detachable. Interesting.. I'm failing to identify which manufacturer built this ropeway from looking at the motor room machinery for some reason. Obviously it'll tend to be one of the manufacturers that do not place a backstop on the high speed shaft. Anyone know?

-Ryan

This post has been edited by rniemi: 29 January 2011 - 03:58 PM


#5 rniemi

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:45 PM

View PostKelly, on 20 January 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

:07 – The driveline briefly turns the opposite way just after the brake pads release – this indicates the ropeway is under a full load – most ropeways have a "one-way" brake and or fine motor controls that will not allow this to happen– either these were disconnected for acceptance testing or not needed for this design.


A quick note on the reverse rotation after the service brake releases, this may tend to be more inherent in the use of an AC induction motor than traditional DC motors. There's a bit of lag for the VFD to compensate for large changes in torque and adjust for the slip rate of the motor, especially when sitting at zero speed. Holding torque at a combination of zero speed and low torque requirements is produced largely through DC braking, where DC is injected into the windings of the induction motor. At this point, there is no magnetic field built up in the rotor. When the service brake opens and the motor starts rotating, it takes a moment for the magnetic field to build up in the rotor and start producing driving torque after the VFD senses the need to produce torque and begins feeding AC to the windings. A common solution to this issue is to begin driving the induction motor against the service brake prior to releasing it (thus rotating the magnetic field to induce current in the rotor at zero speed), but that doesn't appear to be in effect in this case (or else the threshold for proof of torque prior to opening the service brake is less than 100%).

There's insufficient info in the view of the motor to determine whether this is a closed-loop VFD setup with encoder on the motor providing feedback directly to the VFD, or if it's set up as a sensorless magnetic flux vector setup where the VFD infers the slip rate from the current response of the motor as voltage and frequency are varied. Based on the length of time it takes before driving torque is applied, I strongly suspect it's a magnetic flux vector setup. If the video panned around the tail end of the motor, it would be more obvious as the encoder wiring (as well as the full-time AC fan motor wiring) exits the rear shroud at any of the four 90 degree intervals on the SEW motors (you can specify the position when you place an order with SEW, every SEW motor is a custom build).

Judging by the switching frequency ramp-down heard in the video, I'd say SEW supplied the VFD as well. At first I thought it was a Mitsubishi A5xx series VFD, but the taper in the switching frequency as it comes up to full speed sounds more like a SEW magnetic flux vector VFD (which would make sense since SEW obviously supplied the motor as well). SEW makes progressively better deals as you buy more parts from them. We use the SEW motor + encoder + service brake + gearbox w/ integral backstop + VFD on industrial ropeways and entertainment industry applications. When you buy the whole solution from SEW, the price is insanely low..

-Ryan

This post has been edited by rniemi: 29 January 2011 - 04:08 PM


#6 rniemi

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:17 PM

View PostKelly, on 20 January 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

:53- end – You can just hear another clunk – this can be the gearbox gears "accepting" the load from the ropeway and/or the accelerator drive train accepting the load…or someone dropping a wrench. :smile:


The second clunk at :53 is actually another electrically-actuated brake internal to the SEW motor and mounted in the rear end, located between the motor and the encoder stack + full-time AC fan. Recognized the sound immediately. :-) So, this lift actually has two brakes on the high speed side. It would be interesting to observe an E-Stop on this lift, since the SEW brake internal to the motor hits real hard (and immediately) upon removal of power.

You can actually just barely hear the internal SEW brake clunk open immediately prior to the reverse rotation of the shaft. Whether the red service brake is actually clamping the brake disc at the start and end of this video is not immediately clear. It depends a bit whether the friction surface is grey or black. They definitely do move, I just can't say conclusively that they're actually in contact with the disc.

If anyone here has a lift with a drivetrain of this configuration, I'd very much love to see it in person..

-Ryan

This post has been edited by rniemi: 29 January 2011 - 04:39 PM


#7 rniemi

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 12:57 AM

Full video of this ropeway (starting about 1:00 into the video below):


It's an unusual one, with differing bullwheel and tower head designs at different locations, and contours driven independently from the haulrope by separate SEW AC gearmotors. Nifty video footage of the fully exposed terminal and angle station machinery as well. I'm going to say this is Leitner, or at least the majority of it is.

It's not every day you see a ropeway built over a cemetary.

-Ryan

This post has been edited by rniemi: 30 January 2011 - 01:22 AM


#8 rniemi

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 01:12 AM

Same ropeway, stand-alone motor test w/o coupling in place, motor viewed from the other side:


In this one, the encoder cable is visible (it's the last black cable on the far right, exiting the end of the fan shroud and entering a conduit), so it would be reasonable to assume an SEW VFD in closed-loop mode is in use here. In that case, the initial rollback upon brake release is merely the response time needed for the VFD to increase driving torque (and thus rotor current and the rotor's magnetic field).

-Ryan

#9 Lift Dinosaur

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 07:20 AM

View Postrniemi, on 30 January 2011 - 12:57 AM, said:

Full video of this ropeway (starting about 1:00 into the video below):

I'm going to say this is Leitner, or at least the majority of it is.
-Ryan


Not a Leitner- That's a double Doppelmayr grip.

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#10 DakarNick

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 08:55 AM

Yep, its a Doppelmayr (Garaventa). http://gondolaprojec...olas/#more-2488

Another in Tlemcen, Algeria. I can't embed for some reason. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

This post has been edited by DakarNick: 30 January 2011 - 09:06 AM


#11 rniemi

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:14 PM

View PostDakarNick, on 30 January 2011 - 08:55 AM, said:

Yep, its a Doppelmayr (Garaventa). http://gondolaprojec...olas/#more-2488

Another in Tlemcen, Algeria. I can't embed for some reason. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


Interesting. For some reason, I was thinking the "double-V" style lifting frames were a Leitner tower head design. I may have been thrown by Stahlseil's videos of other European installations that used the same tower heads and tubes (perhaps a retrofit from a previous Dopp installation then) and the same SEW AC induction motor and service brake arrangement with a Leitner logo nearby or on the terminals. Hehe.. But indeed, the two articles above do confirm this is a Dopp installation. Thanks for the correction.

Edit: Correction, African, not European. Hehe..

-Ryan

This post has been edited by rniemi: 30 January 2011 - 05:21 PM


#12 Cameron

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:22 PM

Cool videos!

I noticed solar cells on top of the cabins, is that for air-conditioning or fans?

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#13 Peter

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:35 PM

View PostCameron, on 31 January 2011 - 01:22 PM, said:

Cool videos!

I noticed solar cells on top of the cabins, is that for air-conditioning or fans?

Cameron.

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