8 replies to this topic

[campbmsu2]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...sorts_howitzers

or:

RENO, Nev. - The U.S. military is demanding the return of five howitzers that two Sierra Nevada ski resorts use to prevent avalanches, saying it needs the guns for the fighting in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites).

Alpine Meadows and Mammoth Mountain received the artillery pieces on loan from the Army and began using them last year to fire rounds into mountainsides and knock snow loose.

But the ski resorts received word earlier this month that the Army's Tank Automotive and Armaments Command at the Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois needs the howitzers back immediately.

"I need to have them back in the troops' hands within 60 to 90 days," said Don Bowen, the Army command's team leader in charge of the howitzers. "It's a very short timeframe to get them serviceable and back into the theater in southwest Asia. Afghanistan-Iraq is the immediate concern."

The ski resorts said they will comply.

"Given it's a war effort, their needs are greater than ours," said Larry Heywood, Alpine Meadows director of mountain operations.

Howitzers are short-barreled cannons that can be pulled by a vehicle. They fire three to 10 rounds per minute at a range of 9,600 to 12,330 yards. Replacing one would cost around $1 million, Bowen said Tuesday.

The military lent two to Alpine Meadows and three to Mammoth Mountain.

Alpine Meadows and Mammoth Mountain are the only ski resorts in the nation using the 119-A howitzer, the most modern model available, said Bob Moore, a U.S. Forest Service specialist in Truckee, Calif. Other resorts have older 105 mm howitzers.

Pam Murphy, senior vice president at Mammoth Mountain just east of Yosemite National Park, said the military has provided the ski resort with recoilless rifles and other guns for avalanche control for 30 years. The howitzers are the most effective, Murphy said.

"It was designed to kill people, but it's a very valuable safety tool for us," said Rachael Woods, a spokeswoman at Lake Tahoe's Alpine Meadows, where seven people were killed in an avalanche in 1982.

Resort officials said they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to transport the guns, reimburse the Army for training and build firing platforms.

But Murphy said she understood the Army's decision: "We're certainly at a different place in the world than when we first got the guns."

The Forest Service said it is working to secure older howitzers for the ski resorts, and the Army's Bowen said he is optimistic that will happen.


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I want to be loaned a howitzer!

[jeffgladnick]

I was just about to post that!

The story is on yahoo.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...sorts_howitzers

[campbmsu2]

that's where i found it! i <3 yahoo news.

and if anyone's wondered where i've been since i introduced myself, i've been working and reading all of these interesting posts. i've learned so much from this damn forum it's ridiculous! i just really dont' have anything good to say about chair cadencing, for instance. but i am looking to put in a gondola from my apartment to the bar. if anyone has any cost figures on that, let me know!

[SkiBachelor]

Very interesting story. I wonder why Alpine Meadows and Mammoth don't go and buy their own guns. If they can get approval to use them, they should be able to buy them if these types of guns are used appropriately.

[KZ]

They cost a lot of money, and if you can use one for free, why not? Since the forest service is working on getting them replacements, thats a lot better then having to spend their own money. Interesting this is posted becasue just a day or two ago i was looking onto something about alpine and i found they used Howitzers for avalance control. Its kind of scary the power these have. Think of what would happen if alpine over shot the north ridge :eek:

[ccslider]

Military weaponary is used because you can shoot blind - that is with preset coordinates the accuracy is certain - a useful concept while performing avi control work during storm cycles with uncertain visibility. Also the bullets are effected very little by ambient weather conditions like wind so blind shot placement is assured.

Avalaunchers (compressed nitrogen propellant), on the other hand, are very weather dependant - high winds make for siting and trajectory estimatations difficult at best and in reduced visibility conditions, the shooter would have little clue as tho where the shot landed.

The process to acquire military weaponary for use on USFS lands is long and complex - you don't just ask and receive.

[KZ]

This isnt too great of a picture, but it was on the 3rd page in my newspaper today. It shows the groomer tugging the Howitzer behind it. I wonder why they need the weapons back now, especaially becasue the war is "over"

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[iceberg210]

You would think that at 87 billion for the war what is 1 million for a howlitzer when it will probally cost a fortune to get it off the hill and shipped to Iraq

Mabey we should just buy some of the Iraqi's old gun you know some of theirs were made by the US.

[KZ]

Yea, sounds like a joke. I remember seeing somewhere that some of the bombs they dropper cost one million a piece, so they should have held back 5 or 6 bombs and then this wouldnt have to happen.