23 replies to this topic

[Bill Hartman]

I have recently arranged to purchase old chairs from a resort slated to demolish their old lifts that have sat abandoned for years as the resort changes hands to a new owner.

The chairs will be put into private collections for patio swings, benches..etc..

I am trying to figure out what the lifts are...to me it looks like an old Hall lift from the late 60's or early 70s? But what I really want to know is...what tools will I need to remove the chairs from the cable?

Any methods or tricks to get them down?
I am thinking a big wrench, some pulleys and climbing rope.. and I will only be getting the ones that are within ladder reach of the flat ground since I dont know if the lift runs.

[iceberg210]

They're demolishing sugarloaf? (Is that sugarloaf?)

[Bill Hartman]

iceberg210, on 15 April 2010 - 06:15 PM, said:

They're demolishing sugarloaf? (Is that sugarloaf?)

Good eye! Yup that's the loaf!
The new owner has plans to install all new lifts and snowmaking equipment in time to reopen December of this year! The hotel is scheduled to open on July 4.

[Peter]

To avoid any confusion, this is Sugarloaf, Michigan being discussed, not Sugarloaf, Maine.

[jeffe]

Ummm... It's been over 20 years since I worked on a Hall.

If the lift can not be rotated your best bet is to retrieve the chairs after the deconstruction. You might be able to get a few that are at ground level. The ladder and pulley idea is bound to get someone hurt. But, yes you will need a ladder or elevated work platform.

This job is going to require 2 persons capable of lifting.
1. A wrench of the appropriate size to loosen the nut on the hanger head next to the spring.
2. Loosen the nut. Complete removal not needed.
3. Jiggle the chair bail parallel to the haul rope to open grip jaws enough to lift off haul rope.
4. Lift chair off of haul rope and haul away.

[NoPainNoJane]

If you bring any of those chairs out to Colorado to sell, please let me know, I'll definitely buy one for a porch swing.

[Keymech]

I think I would de-tension the lift. Install plate clamps with a six part reave set up or something like that. cut rope between plate clamps and have a piece of equipment lower rope to ground.

[Bill Hartman]

Skier...Yup..you are right!

NoPainNoJane... I'm not headed to CO but if you want to look into shipping..I'll put it on a truck for you...I bet it'll be expensive though.


Keymech..I dont think we can de-tension the lift just yet. They are not ready to take it down...but that would make it much easier!

jeffe..that was sort of what I was thinking....Here is my plan I concocted while driving to work...
-Hook/lean ladder up against cable to reach the cable level
-Attach a sling loop to the upper cross bar, attach snatch block to the cable.
-Run winch cable from the sling through the snatch block down to the 8,000 lbs winch on the front of my truck.
-Loosen spring screw so it "should be free"...im assuming major rust and corrosion will require lots of penetrating oil.
-get out of the way. and attach ropes to the bottom of the chair to keep it in control in case the balance point is not at the upper cross member.
-pull in on winch to lift it up and off the cable.
-let out on winch to lower it to the ground/trailer.

I am pretty confident that will work..but I just dont know that much about how the hanger head works. Is it like a horizontal clamp on the cable?
Would bringing a spring compressor accomplish the same as loosening the bolt that tensions the spring?

[Bogong]

What is the usual price for a double or triple chair?

There is some interest amongst my friends here in Australia about approaching a major resort to buy chairs from an old triple chairlift that destroyed by lightning, but we don't know what a fair price is.

[Keymech]

From what I have seen it is all over the map. Seen then at a ski antique shop in Co. for $500. Have seen them go from Keystone in Co. for $100. Also if you ask the right person at the right time a case of beer might be all it takes.

[Carl]

Your plan may just work. IIRC the rectangular tubing used on the "hanger" is very heavy making the chair assembly a bit top heavy. Two workers can handle the chairs
without much trouble, though.

Carl

[Andy1962]

jeffe, on 15 April 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:

This job is going to require 2 persons capable of lifting.
1. A wrench of the appropriate size to loosen the nut on the hanger head next to the spring.
2. Loosen the nut. Complete removal not needed.
3. Jiggle the chair bail parallel to the haul rope to open grip jaws enough to lift off haul rope.
4. Lift chair off of haul rope and haul away.

I think you may want some kind of torch to heat up the bolt / nut assembly. I think 20 years of rust will keep the nuts pretty tight until you use a torch to heat up and loosen them.

my two cents.

[OnPiste]

Andy1962, on 17 April 2010 - 09:33 AM, said:

I think you may want some kind of torch to heat up the bolt / nut assembly. I think 20 years of rust will keep the nuts pretty tight until you use a torch to heat up and loosen them.

my two cents.

If you can't/don't want to use a torch, try soaking the nuts for 20 minutes with a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Works better than any of the commercial offerings:

Penetrating Oils Compared
Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged an objective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
Penetrating oil Average load
None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ..............214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Note: The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

[Outback]

With a small amount of mechanical gumption I bet one could get that lift moving on aux. power and yank every single chair off that line at the ramp with an impact wrench and a stepladder. Cable looks lubed and the grips look fine.
Get on it!

[Bill Hartman]

Outback, on 19 April 2010 - 05:04 PM, said:

With a small amount of mechanical gumption I bet one could get that lift moving on aux. power and yank every single chair off that line at the ramp with an impact wrench and a stepladder. Cable looks lubed and the grips look fine.
Get on it!

Hmmmm..not a bad idea. What sort of volts and amps do you think might do the trick? I'm going to be 4 hours from my workshop so any tools have to come in the truck!

[william b]

Outback is right. Get the old Wisconsin engine running. The Chairs have gussets added, which tells me this lift ran since 1997, and the grips and rods are stainless steel, so they shouldn't be a problem.
You will need a 12 volt automotive battery, and I would recommend some emery cloth for the points, followed by a quick wipe with a business card. You will also need to provide some fresh gasoline. Jump the positive side of the ignition coil to positive terminal of the battery, and it should run... I bet you could start it with a crank, if you need to. Of course, you'll need to check for trees on the lift line, and make sure nobody else is around that might get hurt. If you do this, the only way to stop the thing is to remove the jump wire; it's not like any of the stop buttons (or deropement switches) will work. I'll bet all the sheaves on the towers turn, but you should check... this could translate into some damage/risk if there was a stuck one.
Let us know how this turns out.

william b

[Peter]

The Block’s Eneliko Smith Purchases Sugar Loaf Resort
Mike Lewis
http://business.tran...ar-loaf-resort/

Eneliko Smith, the managing partner behind the now defunct The Block hotel chain, is investing a reported $10 million to reopen Michigan’s Sugar Loaf ski resort. Sugar Loaf was closed in 2000 due to financial problems. The Block was closed in 2008 due to financial problems, serious financial problems that have resulted in Smith, who is based in Las Vegas, facing felony grand theft and embezzlement charges in California’s El Dorado County.

Smith told the Traverse County Record-Eagle that he plans to purchase the entire resort, an attached golf course and a supporting water treatment plant and plans to open at least a portion of the resort by July 4.

“I’m not a ski resort person. I need a partner,” Smith said in the Traverse City Record-Eagle. “We need a partner that’s going to come in that knows the ski resort business like the back of their hand. The Midwest ski resort business, not California, not Colorado.”

It will be interesting to see who’s willing to step to that one. The Internet is awash with a sea of posts about Smith’s dubious business dealings and past lawsuits including being sued by former partner Nicky Hilton.

Leelanau County Commissioner Melinda Lautner wonders how plenty of red flags went unnoticed as Sugar Loaf’s owners and some county officials touted Smith as an ideal buyer.

“I’m greatly concerned that there are people in our county that were this far along in agreements and plans, etcetera, and hadn’t even Googled the guy,” she said. “I’m kind of stunned.”

Still, Lautner said, concerned county officials won’t have much say in the matter if Smith doesn’t opt to use brownfield dollars or other public incentives.

“On a totally private deal, the county has absolutely no involvement,” she said.

Commission Chair Mary Tonneberger agrees.

“I don’t think we have the ability on a private sale to examine the financial status of the buyer,” she said.

But e-mails still poured into county offices after the Record-Eagle on Saturday published a story about Smith’s plans for Sugar Loaf. Glen Arbor resident Molly Melin, 29, was among several people who expressed their concerns.

Melin believes the public deserves to know exactly what Smith plans to do with the resort, and thinks county officials need to take an interest in the pending deal.

“It’s just a little shady when your resume is based on defending everything you’ve done in the past,” she said, referencing a section of Smith’s Web site where he addresses negative accusations against him.

[Bill Hartman]

Skier, on 21 April 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

The Block's Eneliko Smith Purchases Sugar Loaf Resort
Mike Lewis
http://business.tran...ar-loaf-resort/

Eneliko Smith, the managing partner behind the now defunct The Block hotel chain, is investing a reported $10 million to reopen Michigan's Sugar Loaf ski resort. Sugar Loaf was closed in 2000 due to financial problems. The Block was closed in 2008 due to financial problems, serious financial problems that have resulted in Smith, who is based in Las Vegas, facing felony grand theft and embezzlement charges in California's El Dorado County.............

Yeah....now that this came up...I'll note that I'm not involved with sugar loaf as a company or operation...just a guy trying to get chairs.


Eneliko/Liko/Sean admits he does not "Google very well."..which is very true.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt...he has a huge task at hand and his advisory board so far seems to be well structured...from their initial meeting, it sounds like the team cut to the chase and pretty much put Liko in his place. Which is good. Leave the operations decisions to those that know what to do and give them the tools to do their job.

The team consists of:
1. Samuele Piana - Principal, Sereno, Ski Resort Solutions http://www.sereno.it/
2. Jason Ryan, CEO, neptune industries www.neptuneindustries.com, (designer, Olympic Snow Park, Park City, UT and Olympic Training Centre,
Otsego Club, MI)
3. Dan Mathias - Principal, Chateau Fontaine Winery, formerly of Bavarian Village, Sugar Loaf Snow Resort
4. Mark Fisher - Former Ski Director, Sugar Loaf Snow Resort
5. Ed Budd - Layout, Design and Operations, Sugar Loaf Snow Resort
6. Joe Moses- President, JKJ Golf LLC, Former Global Marketing Manager ( Adidas, Nike, Taylor Made)
7. Liko Smith - Entrepreneur

To do the forum a favor and keep this thread on topic, I'll just provide the links that everybody goes after and you can read them at your leisure...feel free to open a Sugar Loaf thread and go at it more...but I'll try to keep this about taking chairs off an old Hall Lift...it looks like any time another forum mentions Liko Smith..it ends up with a off-topic back and forward of posting good and bad articles about him..
http://www.boardistan.com/?p=2995
http://www.samoaobse...ntent&Itemid=62
http://www.tmz.com/2...ive-been-hosed/
http://glenarborsun....terview-part-1/
http://glenarborsun....es-to-michigan/
http://docs.google.c...G44dzNnZA&hl=en - That one pretty much sums it all up..

I wish him good luck and I hope he keeps it a straight operation...I'm looking forward to getting back on the slopes of the loaf sometime soon!

End...

[mikest2]

william b, on 21 April 2010 - 05:47 AM, said:

Outback is right. Get the old Wisconsin engine running. The Chairs have gussets added, which tells me this lift ran since 1997, and the grips and rods are stainless steel, so they shouldn't be a problem.
You will need a 12 volt automotive battery, and I would recommend some emery cloth for the points, followed by a quick wipe with a business card. You will also need to provide some fresh gasoline. Jump the positive side of the ignition coil to positive terminal of the battery, and it should run... I bet you could start it with a crank, if you need to. Of course, you'll need to check for trees on the lift line, and make sure nobody else is around that might get hurt. If you do this, the only way to stop the thing is to remove the jump wire; it's not like any of the stop buttons (or deropement switches) will work. I'll bet all the sheaves on the towers turn, but you should check... this could translate into some damage/risk if there was a stuck one.
Let us know how this turns out.

william b

I'm not a Hall guy, but you might want to lift the brakes before trying to turn it.

[rniemi]

mikest2, on 21 April 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

I'm not a Hall guy, but you might want to lift the brakes before trying to turn it.

In addition to Mike's recommendation to make sure you lift the brakes, I'd suggest keeping an eye on the upline vs. downline balance as you pull chairs. The assumption here is that the braking system may be in highly questionable condition or that you might be lifting the brakes manually. If you pull all the chairs as they come through the lower terminal, eventually you'll reach a point where the downline (rope coming downhill) weighs significantly more than the upline (rope going uphill) and it'll be difficult to keep it from running away out of control if the brakes are not in serviceable condition.

If the aux Wisconsin engine runs and is up to snuff, and there's a functioning backstop (one-way clutch that prevents reverse rotation, usually in the gearbox or on the high-speed shaft somewhere near the service brake) and there are functioning rollback brake(s) that aren't rusted in place and are properly installed (re: Devils Head rollback accident), it may be significantly safer to pull chairs a few at a time at the top terminal so the upline is heavier than the downline than to risk the lift rolling forward uncontrollably. Or if the profile is relatively flat and even along the length, you could have two groups of people, one pulling chairs at the bottom terminal and the other pulling chairs at the top terminal, pulling the exact same number of chairs at both ends so the line remains balanced.

Cheers,
-Ryan