30 replies to this topic

[floridaskier]

What is the story behind the 27 extra unused towers below the Sunrise Village triple chair at Killington? I remember this being talked about on the forum, but I couldn't find it in a search. Also, why did they close the Devil's Fiddle quad, and if so, why did they leave it entirely in place, minus a haul rope and chairs? The Saturday crowds certainly justified another lift on Bear Mountain. The Needle's Eye drive terminal has also been rusting away for about 15 years now, long after its replacement.

All in all, Killington is a fun mountain. They got several feet of snow last week, and everyone I talked to said this was the best they'd ever seen it. Probably not a typical day for my first Northeastern skiing experience, but it sure was fun.

[spunkyskier01]

If i remember correctly the Sunrise area was part of a deal which allowed ASC to interconnect Pico peak and Killington. This isn't the only abandoned area at Killington actually, the top of Ramshead is also lost.

[thairston96]

floridaskier, on 01 March 2010 - 06:28 AM, said:

What is the story behind the 27 extra unused towers below the Sunrise Village triple chair at Killington? I remember this being talked about on the forum, but I couldn't find it in a search. Also, why did they close the Devil's Fiddle quad, and if so, why did they leave it entirely in place, minus a haul rope and chairs? The Saturday crowds certainly justified another lift on Bear Mountain. The Needle's Eye drive terminal has also been rusting away for about 15 years now, long after its replacement.

All in all, Killington is a fun mountain. They got several feet of snow last week, and everyone I talked to said this was the best they'd ever seen it. Probably not a typical day for my first Northeastern skiing experience, but it sure was fun.

The abandoned towers are left from when the lift used to run down to the old lodge on Route 100. They shortened it in 2001 to get the land needed for the Killington-Pico interconnect .(the plans for this have since been abandoned) And I guess they closed the Devil's Fiddle because they didn't think they needed it. I just happened to be at killington yesterday. Here are some pics http://sticklets.web...albumid=8327419

[Peter]

This Saturday was by far the best day I've had in 2 years of weekly New England skiing.

[floridaskier]

Some more observations and questions about Killington:

- They had to dig out most of the top half of the Superstar line, and several spots along the Snowdon triple, to be able to run the lifts since there was so much snow. They seem to build the towers much lower in the east, even on the newer lifts, presumably to avoid high winds. This probably isn't much of a problem usually, but the amount of snow in the pit under the Skye Peak Express quad was causing trouble. I saw a snowboarder get his board caught on the ground right under the depression sheaves at the bottom terminal and do a front flip off the chair (it was going slow at the time). Everyone's skis were touching the ground, and they were running that chair as fast as I've ever seen a high speed quad run before.

- Do former Yan high speed quads not run as fast as other lifts? The maximum rope speed sign on the Superstar Express said 800 feet/min, and it appeared to be running that fast. The Skye Peak quad was haulin' all day, and the Saturday lines justified cranking up Superstar too, but they never did.

- Every lift had a sign that said "Remember to look up the line" or something like that at the loading line. Is this a Vermont requirement, and is it for the benefit of the operators or the riders?

- There was one spot right before the end of the Skyeship where skiers could easily touch the bottom of the passing gondola cabins with a pole, and maybe an arm. People were ducking out of the way of the oncoming cabins all day. Is this just an anomaly caused by the high snow, or is it always this low to the ground? It looked dangerous to me, and the first time I was standing there, I moved out of the way too.

- It would appear that the eastern skiing public is not quite ready for 90 degree loading yet. The Skye Peak Express was stopping every few minutes because people were missing the chair or sliding off the end of the ramp or falling all over themselves. It surprised me to see 90 degree loading on Ramshead and the Snowshed HSQ too. It seemed unnecessary on the Snowshed lift, which requires a 180 degree gooseneck to line up for the new load line, instead of the simple right turn required for regular loading.

- I don't know how they were able to run any of the lifts with that much rime ice on them. Especially on the upper towers of each lift, every surface was covered in several inches of rime, and the comlines were 6 inches thick on every lift. Kudos to the lift maintenance guys for getting the Canyon quad running enough to get everybody off, including me, after being stuck for half an hour because of ice problems. Unfortunately for me, who didn't know the mountain well, every trail sign was also covered in the same ice.

[skiPhreak]

Killington does seem to abandon a lot of lifts. They have a lot of poorly placed lifts also devils Fiddle for example. During the early 2000's at Killington the Devils Fiddle Quad was usually closed and opened every once an a while. Maybe 3 years ago Killington made an effort to open it on weekends the thing is even when the Bear mountain Quad was crowded and Devils fiddle was open people would ski past it anyways and wait in line at Bear. Killington has made so many changes to lifts over the years.

Ramshead doesn't go to the top any more I think it was to bypass the harder terrain at the top of ramshead and gear the area for begginers.
The orginal Gondola used to go to Killington peak but Skye Peak only goes to Skye Peak I think because the old gondola top section was always closed due to wind.
The northwest Passage (Sunrise) triple was cut in half
The Needles Eye Lift used to go up higher on the mountain
and the old Killignton double went a different line than the new K peak Gondola.

Killington is an interesting Mountain and I am unsure of the details but it seems like a lot of there lifts are either pieced together from old lifts or have had a major modification. Ex all the Yan HSQ retrofits Bear Mtn triple to Quad convert and I think 1 of there FGQ's is 2 lifts combined.

A few years ago I found a Master Plan for Killington from the late 90's It was interesting I can't find it again but I remember it showed the killington Pico connect as well as lift changes and some Expansion by Bear mountain if I remember correctly.

This post has been edited by skiPhreak: 03 March 2010 - 09:10 AM

[DonaldMReif]

Devil's Fiddle might become the next Outrigger Lift.

You know what I mean if you remember Winter Park's Eagle Wind lift when it was called Outrigger (1978-2003).

[floridaskier]

There sure are a lot of interesting lifts there. It seems like not a single one is 100% of any single company. The Snowdon quad is especially fun. I think it has Heron towers with Poma towerheads, Yan tension return converted to fixed return terminal, Poma Alpha drive, Yan hanger arms and grips, and Poma chairs. Every lift seems to be some combination of Yan and Poma, with some Heron stuff here and there.

Was there any particular reason Devil's Fiddle was removed, besides lack of traffic?

[skier2]

floridaskier, on 03 March 2010 - 10:04 PM, said:

There sure are a lot of interesting lifts there. It seems like not a single one is 100% of any single company. The Snowdon quad is especially fun. I think it has Heron towers with Poma towerheads, Yan tension return converted to fixed return terminal, Poma Alpha drive, Yan hanger arms and grips, and Poma chairs. Every lift seems to be some combination of Yan and Poma, with some Heron stuff here and there.

Was there any particular reason Devil's Fiddle was removed, besides lack of traffic?

Bear quad is 100% yan, as was devil's fiddle, but bear was upgraded from a triple to a quad....btw is Devil's fiddle still there just sitting?

[crazyskier91]

Devil's Fiddle is still there with the exception of the haul rope and chairs. I'm not quite sure what they did with those.

[iceberg210]

Oh I'm sure the chairs and haul rope are sitting around Killington somewhere. Ski resorts never tend to throw stuff like that away, it just gets thrown into the boneyard. Or a random place in the woods on the hill, whatever is closer...

[skier2]

iceberg210, on 04 March 2010 - 10:28 AM, said:

Oh I'm sure the chairs and haul rope are sitting around Killington somewhere. Ski resorts never tend to throw stuff like that away, it just gets thrown into the boneyard. Or a random place in the woods on the hill, whatever is closer...

Sun Valley is sitting on so many Yan HSQ chairs it's almost a shame...

[floridaskier]

skier2, on 04 March 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:

Bear quad is 100% yan, as was devil's fiddle, but bear was upgraded from a triple to a quad....btw is Devil's fiddle still there just sitting?

No, Bear has Poma towerheads on the breakover towers. It looked like Devil's Fiddle was all Yan though

[Skier123]

floridaskier, on 05 March 2010 - 08:19 AM, said:

No, Bear has Poma towerheads on the breakover towers. It looked like Devil's Fiddle was all Yan though

Bear also has Poma sheaves. Devils Fiddle has mostly Yan sheaves, although there are some Poma sheaves, sometimes on the same train as the Yans, which I found quite odd.

Superstar also has two Poma towerheads, except they are at the bottom.

A cool thing about Superstar is that it kept the original built-in Yan breakover tower that was attached to the top terminal.

[snowmaster]

floridaskier, on 01 March 2010 - 06:28 AM, said:

What is the story behind the 27 extra unused towers below the Sunrise Village triple chair at Killington? I remember this being talked about on the forum, but I couldn't find it in a search.

Sunrise got very little traffic and had low elevation. It required a lot of snowmaking effort for a realitvely short useful season length and relatively little skier use. It was put in as an access point to planned terrain called Parker's Gore southeast of Bear and Sunrise. They got shot down on those plans due to bear habitat, so Sunrise lost it's purpose. (Ever noticed the chili at KBL in the 80's tasted a lot like bear meat? Trying to solve the problem... ;-) It would be gone completely if there weren't ski in ski out condos served by the remaining upper part. Stinks, though, there were some great trails there and it was very convenient for those of us coming over US-4 from NH. Lowered the overall vertical there too.

[skiPhreak]

Here is Killington's last trail map with sunrise on there. I remember some of those runs as not being that bad when the snow was good

Killinton Map

This post has been edited by skiPhreak: 10 March 2010 - 11:00 AM

[Jonni]

One possible reason for many lifts just sitting there rusting and not actually being taken down, is that it costs money to remove lifts, just to have them sit in the boneyard. It was much easier and cheaper to leave the sunrise lift towers from when it was the old Northeast Passage Triple as there are many towers located such that only a helicopter would be able to retrieve them. Same with Devil's Fiddle.

[Marc Shepherd]

Killington is a chairlift archaeologist's dream, with abundant evidence of abandoned and truncated chairlifts.

I am quite sure that the new management would kill the Sunrise Triple, if they could. A couple of years ago, they proposed running it only on weekends. Owners of the adjoining condos were understandably furious, and they backed off. But it remains very lightly used, since there is only beginner terrain in that area. It isn't even especially good beginner terrain, and it's not easily reachable without skiing a lot of other terrain that's more interesting and difficult. It's worth doing once, if you're exploration-minded, but I am apparently in the minority in that regard.

You can see the remnants of a black-diamond trail that used to run right under the Triple. I suspect they figured it's not worth keeping it open with so few skiers/riders venturing that way. On a recent Sunday in February, I rode that chair and observed literally not a single human being in the area, other than the lift operator. By the way, the Sunrise Triple was originally called the Northeast Passage. It was three times the current length, with a running time of 17 minutes if you rode it the whole way. (I think there was a midstation.)

As I understand it, the interconnect with Pico Mountain is not dead. They continue to renew the permits, so that it could be built eventually. But it would cost several million dollars in new chairlifts and other infrastructure, and they are not prepared to make that investment in this economy. Some locals think it will never happen, but the official position remains that it could, though not anytime soon.

Regarding the original Ramshead chair, I read somewhere that it was often subject to ice closures, and that was the reason why, when it was rebuilt, the top part of it was chopped off. Yes, Ramshead is a family mountain, but there were several green and blue routes down from the original summit; that, in itself, probably wouldn't have been a good reason for amputating the top portion.

It is really a pity that when the Skyeship Express Gondola replaced the original gondola, it didn't go all the way up to the summit, as the original gondola had done. Killington could use a second route to the summit. Management has acknowledged that they are considering another lift in that area.

I have to assume that the lift towers and terminals for the Devil's Fiddle chair will eventually come out, as they are an eyesore.

[jasdmd0]

Marc Shepherd, on 22 March 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

Killington is a chairlift archaeologist's dream, with abundant evidence of abandoned and truncated chairlifts.

I am quite sure that the new management would kill the Sunrise Triple, if they could. A couple of years ago, they proposed running it only on weekends. Owners of the adjoining condos were understandably furious, and they backed off. But it remains very lightly used, since there is only beginner terrain in that area. It isn't even especially good beginner terrain, and it's not easily reachable without skiing a lot of other terrain that's more interesting and difficult. It's worth doing once, if you're exploration-minded, but I am apparently in the minority in that regard.

You can see the remnants of a black-diamond trail that used to run right under the Triple. I suspect they figured it's not worth keeping it open with so few skiers/riders venturing that way. On a recent Sunday in February, I rode that chair and observed literally not a single human being in the area, other than the lift operator. By the way, the Sunrise Triple was originally called the Northeast Passage. It was three times the current length, with a running time of 17 minutes if you rode it the whole way. (I think there was a midstation.)

As I understand it, the interconnect with Pico Mountain is not dead. They continue to renew the permits, so that it could be built eventually. But it would cost several million dollars in new chairlifts and other infrastructure, and they are not prepared to make that investment in this economy. Some locals think it will never happen, but the official position remains that it could, though not anytime soon.

Regarding the original Ramshead chair, I read somewhere that it was often subject to ice closures, and that was the reason why, when it was rebuilt, the top part of it was chopped off. Yes, Ramshead is a family mountain, but there were several green and blue routes down from the original summit; that, in itself, probably wouldn't have been a good reason for amputating the top portion.

It is really a pity that when the Skyeship Express Gondola replaced the original gondola, it didn't go all the way up to the summit, as the original gondola had done. Killington could use a second route to the summit. Management has acknowledged that they are considering another lift in that area.

I have to assume that the lift towers and terminals for the Devil's Fiddle chair will eventually come out, as they are an eyesore.

Yup, the Northeast Passage used to have a mid-station. And from that mid-station were a couple of really fun trails, Thunderball and The Judge, which back in the old Pres Smith days of Killington, they'd make a decent amount of snow on, and would be real nice to ski on both early spring corn days and also on cold, windy days, where their lower elevation and SE exposure helped greatly. You used to be able to lap the mid-station, using thouse trails, then ski down Sun Dog (the main trail from the Bear Mtn area to the NEP base) and have it practically to yourself. Plus after some runs, you could practically ski right to the Back Behind Saloon next to the base of the NEP lift and enjoy a pretty darn good burger and a beer for lunch. The "worst" part about the NEP lift definitely was when you decided to leave the NEP area and head back to the rest of Killington, as the forementioned 17 minute ride seemed more like 17 hours some days!

This post has been edited by jasdmd0: 25 March 2010 - 07:14 PM

[okemopoma]

Man I used to love the old YAN Triple Northeast Passage chair. The best place to park your car in Killington as long as you could find your way back at the end of the day. I think it was like 10 miles back to the main base.
The 17 min ride was grueling. And if your dropped your glove on the way up it was history.
That was some old school VT skiing. Slow lifts and empty trails. They just dont make them like that anymore.
So sad to drive by the old base lodge and see the Killington Snowmobile Tours sign there.
Another piece of history bites the dust.

Some of the condo people at Sunrise Village don't even know it was ever there.

Too bad, it was awesome.