16 replies to this topic

[SkiBachelor]

The 2009 Lift Installation Survey has just been published.

http://www.skilifts....tall_na2009.htm

[Lift Dinosaur]

Pretty depressing, eh?

Dino

[iceberg210]

What's interesting I thought was the fact that the two partek doubles weren't mentioned in SAM magazine.

I'm still curious to what exactly is the agreement that Partek has with Doppelmayr cause I thought the agreement was that they weren't going to make any new lifts after the buy out, but obviously there must have been something different in there cause they're still making new lifts.

But then I wonder why SAM didn't mention those two lifts at any rate...

Also I don't know for sure but I thought that the Flat Iron lift wasn't a new lift but rather the old Powderhorn from Solitude relocated? But I saw it on the new lift survey so I may be mistaken...

This post has been edited by iceberg210: 25 January 2010 - 09:03 PM

[SkiBachelor]

A member on the forum said that the new flat iron lift had the Eco drive.

[iceberg210]

Huh, I wouldn't be surprised, I doubt they're using the old chairs either.

Thanks for the clarification Cameron, by the way would you happen to know what's up with Partek and why they aren't in the SAM survey? (at least not in my copy of SAM)

[SkiBachelor]

I contacted Olivia at SAM today so I should have a reply by tomorrow.

[skiersage]

I am looking at pictures of the new big bear lifts and it looks like only one side has completely new equipment. The left side of it uses sheave assemblies and carriers that are typical of older Borvig lifts. The right side lift appears to be new though.

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[SkiBachelor]

I received a response back from Jennifer and she said that it's not listed because it uses used equipment. However, what is used equipment these days? When Mt. Bachelor replaced its Pine Marten Express, it reused almost everything except the terminals, grips and haul rope and it was classified as a new lift.

[Peter]

The Canyons' lift was also used from Solitude but listed as Doppelmayr CTEC.

What about the lift at Val D'Irene? http://www.val-diren...tent/article/59
It looks like used Doppelmayr or D-CTEC brought back a model that has not been built since before the merger.

[floridaskier]

I didn't realize the St. Regis Deer Crest funicular has a name. I don't think that's right, maybe they mixed it up with Park City's new lift from last year, which really was called Crescent (Park City doesn't use the 'express' title). There's no indication of any name on the funicular, and it's just labeled as "the funicular" on all the signs around the new hotel

[vons]

looking at that D-ctec at Val D'Irene where is the Drive sheeve brake? It is normally on the bullwheel in the front and center of the terminal but I see nothing on the bullwheel looking like a brake.

[Richardo]

Hi Everyone

The '09 survey seems to highlight a trend with installations of Dop-Ctec out numbering L-Poma by more than 2 to 1 (certainly in North America anyway). I know it's less than this some years, though on average this ratio seems about right - certainly since some of the other manufacturers such as Partek, Yan and Riblet have effectively disappeared.

Reading other topics and comments over the years some members have distinct preferences for the design / engineering of one over the other, and aesthetics too obviously come into play. I'm curious to get some input from you all as to why there's such a discrepancy between the two brands.

I realise there are many factors involved in selecting a manufacturer/brand including design, engineering, initial and total-cost-of-ownership plus commonality and existing experience/knowledge etc., however a frank discussion with a fairly senior member of the Thredbo management team here in OZ last year, the attitude seemed to be - 'you won't get sacked for purchasing Dop'.

In my industry (IT) that statement equates to an attitiude in the 80's and 90's that 'you wouldn't get shot for purchasing IBM - no matter what happens'. While I'm sure there's more maturity in the purchasing decisions of resorts these days (this is an assumption), I am keen to know what drives an orientation for one brand over the other - apart from a personal preference.

Sorry for the length of question and preamble.

Cheers,
Richard.

[floridaskier]

It has to be on price and customer loyalty. Doppelmayr CTEC controls all of Utah's new lift market (only one Poma lift operating in the state nowadays), and Leitner-Poma has installed nearly all of the recent new lifts in Colorado. There are very few resorts with a bunch of Pomas who purchase a Doppelmayr, or the other way around. I wouldn't imagine aesthetics come into play too much with lift purchases, since Joe Customer won't ever notice and they look similar enough anyway. In the few cases where the bid numbers are open to the public (the state-owned mountains in New York come to mind) the lowest bidder has always been selected. It's easier for resorts to only have to stock one type of spare parts instead of two, so buying the same type of lift twice makes sense

[Bogong]

Richardo. As a fellow Australian, would you agree with me that the Dopp / Poma ratio in our country in the last decade has been more like 3 to 1, especially in your state.

Leitner-Poma are getting some business in New Zealand, but not much here, which is a shame because I've always slightly preferred them to Dopp.

In any case you need two strong competitors to keep prices low and innovation high.
If Poma shrinks too much, Dopp will have a semi-monoploy and we all know what a monopoly means... :(

[Richardo]

Agree Bogong - there does need to be some level of competition so that organisations don't become complacent. Its not always deliberate, its just difficut to continually self motivate without someone else pushing you along.

NSW certainly does struggle for 'variety' with the only Poma (to my knowledge) being in Charlotte Pass. We did start well with a number of Mueller (including one rather infamous one) and 2 Riblet's at Thredbo. Other than those, NSW is pretty much a Dop state. As you point out, at least a few have made it into NZ of late such as at Cardrona.

Cheers.

[Bogong]

Richardo, I'm interested in who made some of the old Australian ski lifts from the 1940's to 1970's.
As a Victorian, I don't have exact details of lifts in NSW and Tasmania.

I'm especially interested in knowing which lifts are/were Muller and Riblet?
I think the 1958 Crackenback double chair at Thredbo was a Muller, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway, this is my attempt at listing details of all 400 Australian ski lifts.
http://wikiski.com/w...rectory#Thredbo

If you have time, please have a look at it and let me know of any corrections or additions.

Thanks, Dave.

[Richardo]

Bogong, on 04 February 2010 - 04:02 AM, said:

Richardo, I'm interested in who made some of the old Australian ski lifts from the 1940's to 1970's.
As a Victorian, I don't have exact details of lifts in NSW and Tasmania.

I'm especially interested in knowing which lifts are/were Muller and Riblet?
I think the 1958 Crackenback double chair at Thredbo was a Muller, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway, this is my attempt at listing details of all 400 Australian ski lifts.
http://wikiski.com/w...rectory#Thredbo

If you have time, please have a look at it and let me know of any corrections or additions.

Thanks, Dave.

G'Day Dave

The Crackenback was a Mueller which was built to Lovers Leap initially, and then extended to the summit in 1960 (I think). One of the guys in the Museum told me a few years ago that due to technical issues (he mentioned derailing as being one) the top half was replaced and Riblet towers etc. were installed, so we had a combination Mueller and Riblet chair which was a little unique - in OZ anyway!

The two subsequent chairs - Ramshead and Merrits - are Riblet, though the towers on the Merrits look remarkably like those used on the ill-fated Thredbo to CP chair which was built around the same time. They're in fact based on a Mueller design (a very early one), though the sheaves, chairs, grips and drive are all Riblet. Strangely the towers on the Crackenback used the more traditional Mueller design.

To my knowledge these were the only Riblet chairs built in OZ, though there were quite a few Mueller's. The only two of the latter than I'm aware of still running are the Mt Perisher double and the senic chair at Mt Jamberoo - whis is part of the original Thredbo to CP chair.

More than happy to take a look at your page and make any contributions that I can.

Cheers,
Richard.

This post has been edited by Richardo: 23 February 2010 - 03:37 PM