33 replies to this topic

[Petz]

It could be a problem when the distance between support wheels and bullwheel is very large, then i would see the possibility that the rope could maybe leave the bullwheel groove grounding that the chair´s vertical stabilisation done by the clamp or upper bullwheel flange get partially lost, but i see no danger of deropements.

In this Alpinforum topic you can see a picture in the second post; at this double chairlift located in Oberwald / Switzerland the skiers leave the lift before entering, passengers without ski do that regulary after passing the bullwheel.
http://v116681.dd5718.kasserver.com/forum/...=39&t=31218

This post has been edited by Petz: 20 June 2009 - 10:29 AM

[Carl]

Hmm, during "line work" on Lift 5 at JH, with the typically overloaded "work chair", we had our lift operator not hear us announce our approach to the upper terminal. We were running at about 200 fpm and made a quick decision to "stick it out" and do what we could to prevent a catastrophe! I sat on the lower deck of the work chair and stuck my legs out to the "inside", knowing we'd experience a violent swing. It worked! I pushed us off the return terminal's structure and we headed down the line. After a few towers the operator called and asked if we were approaching the upper terminal?

New Huggies were definitely needed. A review of radio procedures was in order, as well.

Bottom line? Not a recommended ride........

Sorry, a little off topic.

Remember that one, Molas?

Carl

[stmad12]

Lift Kid, on 18 June 2009 - 07:53 PM, said:

I have had a few younger students in my ski school days go around the bullwheel. As in everyone else's cases, nothing bad happened. Of course, the lifty wasn't awake on one of them and sent a student of mine back down the hill...Little kids always miss the stop gate. But, nothing has happened, although I recall hearing that from a higher-up co-worker a while back.

So is this ski lift myth busted or plausible? That is the question. (any Mythbusters fans here?)

At Copper Mountain, the Eagle is running 50 % and i've seen about 20 fully loaded chairs come through both stations with no exiters, just people who ride the chair up and back for the excitement. It is probably not the same, considering that it is detachable.

[Lift Dinosaur]

stmad12, on 09 August 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

At Copper Mountain, the Eagle is running 50 % and i've seen about 20 fully loaded chairs come through both stations with no exiters, just people who ride the chair up and back for the excitement. It is probably not the same, considering that it is detachable.

It is definitely not the same...because on a detach you don't "ride the bullwheel" you just go around the contour with the carrier supported by the terminal structure.

Dino

[liftmech]

stmad12, on 09 August 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

At Copper Mountain, the Eagle is running 50 % and i've seen about 20 fully loaded chairs come through both stations with no exiters, just people who ride the chair up and back for the excitement. It is probably not the same, considering that it is detachable.

Last I checked, we make EVERYONE unload even if they're going right back down.... like Dino says, the chairs are supported by the terminal structure but there's that other fun item-- the conveyor chain isn't exactly designed to ferry people, just empty carriers. If you saw fully loaded chairs go around the contour the operators weren't doing their jobs.

[ceo]

Jonni, on 18 June 2009 - 12:30 PM, said:

I know that Lake Compounce in CT has a skyride chair (D/TEC quad) that runs with passengers riding the bullwheel. Although I believe normal line speed is something like 200fpm or so.

Canobie Lake Park in NH has an ancient double chair (looks vaguely Hall-ish) where you ride (slowly) around the return bullwheel and unload where you loaded. What's amusing is that the return terminal has ski-area-standard "DO NOT UNLOAD HERE", "DO NOT LOAD HERE" and "NO DOWNHILL LOADING" signs, even though it's fenced off and has no way to load or unload, and is at the same elevation as the drive terminal.

[floridaskier]

The South Ridge triple at Killington takes riders around the turh over two bullwheels. Having ridden this once, I would never want to try sitting in a chair going around the bullwheel at full speed. I would have fallen out without the bar (sitting on the outside of the chair). I guess it would be easier sitting in the middle of the chair directly under the rope, so there wouldn't be any speed change, but the outside and inside of the chair jerk you around a lot. I would worry more about the riders flying off the chair when going around the bullwheel, even if it wouldn't derail the rope.

[Kicking Horse]

I have had a lot of riders on fix grip chairs ride the bullwheel at 550fpm. nothing happened. Just the riders get shaken up a bit....


Then there was that one time a rider backpack got snagged in the chair and he went around the bullwheel at full speed missing the stop gate and went 50m out of the station before the operator saw what was going on...


Needless to say that operator was fired on the spot. (happened here in Greece)

[zeedotcom]

Most places that I am familiar with, if the rider goes onto the bullwheel, its no big deal. If they go "around" to the point where they are facing totally down the line, it hits that area where you have to have a talk with the op. If they make it to the point where they can't hop down on their own, there is a big problem.

One place that I was at had a real hard time firing people (they just wouldn't do it for whatever reason). A kid wound up at the last tower on their way back down before the lift was stopped. Luckily they were light enough that the jacket didn't rip and drop them and a ladder was hooked over the chair and the kid was brought down. That op was then sentenced to the bottom terminal for the rest of his shifts. He went through one shift. When he started his second shift at the bottom, he told me that he wasn't going to do that and walked off. It is just unfortunate that we had to keep around someone who let something like that happen, even if it was only temporary.

[SkiLiftsRock]

zeedotcom, on 13 August 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

Most places that I am familiar with, if the rider goes onto the bullwheel, its no big deal. If they go "around" to the point where they are facing totally down the line, it hits that area where you have to have a talk with the op. If they make it to the point where they can't hop down on their own, there is a big problem.

One place that I was at had a real hard time firing people (they just wouldn't do it for whatever reason). A kid wound up at the last tower on their way back down before the lift was stopped. Luckily they were light enough that the jacket didn't rip and drop them and a ladder was hooked over the chair and the kid was brought down. That op was then sentenced to the bottom terminal for the rest of his shifts. He went through one shift. When he started his second shift at the bottom, he told me that he wasn't going to do that and walked off. It is just unfortunate that we had to keep around someone who let something like that happen, even if it was only temporary.

Why can't they just let the person go down the lift, and then back up?

[zeedotcom]

Part of the issue is that people intend to get off at the top. If they don't, they are often trying to, resulting in an unsafe riding position for the return trip. Part of it is the psychological factor of not getting off where they wanted and often not having ridden downhill before.

Additionally, depending on the lift, they may or may not be designed for downhill riders. While we all know that a single person on the downhill side probably won't do much harm, the equipment is set up for a certain task.

There can be the complication of some technical designation as well. If people are going downhill, it is not functioning as a lift in the same manner as one that just goes up and drops you off. I'm not sure exactly how it breaks down, but it can be a ride instead of a lift or something like that depending on location, purpose, etc.

[k2skier]

In my 3 years at Mt Hood Meadows I saw many kids on the Buttercup lift, Yan fixed grip double, go around the bullwheel but I guess the line speed to be around 250fpm, and the little kids would never trip the safety gate so you had to be extra careful on the stop button.

One very dead spring I was working the Daisy lift, a Doppelmayr FGD, and no one had been on line for over an hour, all of a sudden I get an excited call from the bottom op chewing me out for letting a little girl ride all the way to the bottom. To this day I still think she was pranking me, I always checked the line at least every couple of minutes that day and she never reported it to management, and I didn't hear from a pissed off parent.

Timberlines Blossom lift which was a Riblet double, (now it's Stomin' Normans HSQ) has issues with the wind and spitting the clips out of the haul rope as the chairs went around the bullwheel.

My most memorable chair in the bullwheel incident was about 1990 at Crystal Mt WA on the Minor's Basin chair. I was riding whatever was there that paralleled it back in that time frame (Chinook HSQ now). I happened to be watching the chair because I was planning on taking the MB chair but forgot to go get onto it for some reason. Just as I was about even with the top station 2 boarders unloaded and one pushed off on the chair very hard, it swung forward just as it was entering the bullwheel which caused the chair to de-rope, I saw the first 2 chairs with bodies in both seats get whipped right to the ground. I took over 1.5 hours to rope evac the chair.

With the idiots I worked with, some would jump in the chair at full speed and ride the bullwheel just for kicks, I cannot see how riding the bullwheel at full speed would cause any issues.

[Haulrope]

I've never been worried about deroping the bullwhell with a rider, but on some of the faster fixed grips, there's a little more force. Think of the rollback video showing the load test blocks at the bottom of the lift, now imagine a small child on an icy chair on a fixed-grip that's running a little too fast with a somewhat inexperienced top attendant. The bar's already up, and if the ramp approach is too shallow, people will still put their skis down on the approach (whether they're planning on unloading or not) and push the chair back far enough to have it swinging forward as it's going around, so even after the stop gate stops the lift, the chair could still have some significant swing, I've seen it break the brittle bars on the guide sheaves.

Personally, as a lift op and not a lift mechanic (at least yet anyway) unless I'm told specifically that bullwheel riding is allowed, I assume it's not, especially if the lift has a top safety gate. Every lift I've operated has either a wooden deck or a dirt mound under the downhill side guide sheaves, and all downloading (allowed for lift employees and sometimes communications tower technicians only) is done from this platform.

On our old Savio double (with CTEC chairs) has the flange welded on to the bullwheel as separate pieces in sections. Just the weight of a 250lb person in a chair is enough to bed the flange, it won't break, but it will bend enough to be obvious that someone rode it recently.

This post has been edited by Haulrope: 11 December 2010 - 07:15 AM

[DakarNick]

Ski Lift Maniac, I am an ex-Iowan, now Coloradan. Do you work at Adventureland?