9 replies to this topic

[Skiing#1]

I just am curious...

How many percent the skiers and snowboarders got load and unload the ski lift without instruction? (Like they didn't ask the lift operators or anyone).

Since I read the article and they said there is risks. That is why I ask you about that question above.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...DN%26start%3D60

[Kicking Horse]

You know, Since i have worked a main skilift at a mountain I think I can asnwer this. It seems to me that most problems come from the skier/boarder jerking around. I only had one accident unloading this year that I felt a Lift accident report had to be filled out. The other 3-4 ones I did was becasue the kids were jarking / horsing around. This is only at the top / unload station. As for the Load station I know they had 3-4 also. But they were releated to first timers. One of them was a kid that fell off just outside the terminal. Lift was already stopping when the kid fell off.

Too me loading and unloading a lift is MUCH MUCH MUCH safer then actully skiing down the mountain.

[Lift Kid]

but I have to ask. What do you classify as a "reportable" incident? Does there have to injury, or what?

[Kicking Horse]

Basicly if Ski patrol is called to the lift it must be written up. I'm not 100% clear on what must be reported to the tramway board. If someone got hit by the chair but declined ski patrol I could do up a report if we felt it was needed. It's up to the lift operator on that part. If it's horseplay then we will write it up just incase it comes back down the road.

And Charlie your question is not off topic.

;)

[tahoeistruckin]

When I was doing the chair bumping gig , I lost track of how many people who claimed they knew how to load/ off load, yet they would end up having problems on either end. Be it packs caught in the chair down to actually horse play on the ramps, and yes even on the chair, as it’s out in ’space’. Yes there were a few times I did have to get ‘stern’ with them, explaining they could get hurt by getting nailed by a chair that weighs as much 400 pounds. And if they refused to take my advice, the boys in red were at the top to further explain to them.

A great Lift Operator, will learn to read people , while passengers are standing in line to load. Personally I would look as far back as 2 or 3 next chairs, to see if there were going to be problems. At the same time I could watch every chair leave the terminal.

Interaction.
Try to have the attention of the guest on you. By saying hello, or ask how is the skiing? With their attention on you, there is a better chance they are going to pay attention to you when you say , ‘here’s your chair,’ and thus they look behind to see them get ’scooped’ up. If a operator just stands there leaning on a shovel, not saying a word, and not really paying attention, then yes , chances are very good there will be problems. Or the guest will be suddenly surprised as the chair touches the back of their knees.
You have to be proactive, not reactive. Stop problems before they happen.

As for a percentage of passengers needing instruction on loading , riding, unloading a lift, I would hope it’s 100% on the beginner lifts. Instructions given by either the lift operators and or Ski Instructors. The chances are huge , that a beginning skier has never been on a chairlift at the local amusement park.. And now here they are on your ramp with things that slide on snow, attached to their feet, and they are trying to stay calm why this heavy chair like contraption is coming up behind them every few seconds .
The operator needs to be on top of their game. My opinion, there should always be two operators at the load ramp on beginner lifts because so many things can happen , You have the op. doing the actual loading, and controlling of the lift, and his / her partner helping the skier , if need be, come out from the wait here board, to the loading here boards.

On the more advanced lifts, one must always be ready for something to happen. Top Op should stand outside for most part, near the control panel, to react to a situation that may occur while off loading. Most times an experienced Operator can slow or stop the lift and fix the problem. Watch down the line at 2,3,4 chairs inbound for potential problems. Again be Proactive.
I say then the chances for most part drop down to less than 10%. People riding those lifts are the more experience skier/ snow boarder, and they are more aware of what can happen .

When to write up the incident ? Well it goes with out saying, any time there is someone hurt on the ramp. I even went as far as writing in a note book , when some said OUCH as they sat down, Just for future reference, if it came back to management. Or if a passenger gets to the top and reports to the top operator, he got hit by the chair while loading.
I would also write it up if a person , who claimed they are hurt but declined patrol. There’s nothing like C Y A.

As for what is reported to the state’s tramway way board , I couldn’t say for sure. But I do know that all daily paperwork is saved for years by the resort, so that it can be reviewed buy insurance companies, lawyers, and the tram board during inspections.
All resorts I believe require each stop to be logged thru out each day. That paper work is then reviewed and filed away by management., to be bought out, if there is a claim made against the resort for one reason or another.


Just my nickel’s worth of 14 years experience.

[DonaldMReif]

Newbies are the most likely to get hurt. Those like me who have been skiing for a few years can easily load and unload chairlifts without second thought, except of course, for those who ride the T-Bar at Breckenridge (where you want to make sure you're riding with someone of equal weight).

Newbies also seem to need some more help getting in chairs, especially littler ones. Where I ski in Colorado, many of the times, the distance from the chair seat to the main load ramp is so much that little kids might need to be lifted up into the chair (and I've watched numerous ones when waiting in lines at the Mercury SuperChair or Beaver Run SuperChair, to name a few). Then of course, when there are a lot of little children in ski school groups, that's when lift slowdowns or stops are needed. Of course, there are a few lifts I can think of where chairs are positioned slightly lower, and thus the distance is a lot more tolerable, e.g. the Independence SuperChair (current, not in time before the bottom terminal was relocated). Whenever I ride that lift, my knees feel a little bent too far for a second or two, but once you're accelerating, they feel fine.

Newbies probably also have more trouble when it comes to 90 degree loading lifts, although how they manage that at Vail on the Sourdough Express, I don't know. As there's the turn after the load area, that's going to result in some problems.

Also, and although , a reminder to those who have short height children: always have your children sitting on the side where the attendant is. I'm pretty sure some of you have seen that Rescue 911 segment about a little girl who was left dangling from the Little Cat lift at Snowbasin because her mother couldn't get her into the chair.

[Peter]

DonaldMReif, on 08 July 2009 - 08:49 AM, said:

Newbies are the most likely to get hurt.

What's your basis for that?

From the National Ski Areas Association:

Quote

Who gets fatally injured while skiing and snowboarding?
Most fatalities occur in the same population that engages in high-risk behavior. Victims are predominantly male (85 percent) from their late teens to late 30s (70 percent), according to Dr. Shealy. Less than 10 percent of fatally injured skiers and snowboarders are under 10 or over 50 years of age, but more than 16 percent of all skiers and snowboarders are in these age groups. Most of those fatally injured are usually above-average skiers and snowboarders who are going at high rates of speed on the margins of intermediate trails. This is the same population that suffers the majority of unintentional deaths from injury. For example, in 1995 this population suffered 74 percent of fatal car accidents and 85 percent of all industrial accidents, Dr. Shealy reports. Males comprise about 60 percent of skiing participants, and more than 75 percent of snowboarding participants.

While this is true for fatal injuries which are easy to track, I suspect the same is true for non-fatal injuries.

[hoodoo]

An accident that I witnessed once, which always stuck in my mind was on a carpet at Keystone... A family of four beginners, first ride up the carpet.. were taken out all together buy one person that did not know how to stop or turn.... she skied right into the carpet.. the mom had a broken leg, the dad a broken arm... the two kids various sprains. Definitely where there are beginners, crazy things can happen.... they can't navigate where they need to go... when I was at Telluride, during spring break .. some friends took a girl up a min. intermediate run that was a sheet of ice... she could not turn or stop and skied right into a tree and died.. I have certainly had a lot of falls, but being able to think quickly and know what my equipment can do helped me escape w/o injury. I would have to agree that beginners have a worse chance of sustaining a bad injury.

[Lift Kid]

Skier,
I think Donald was referring to mostly ski-lift loading and unloading related injuries. That article you quoted was talking about fatalities overall. That includes death by tree, impact, etc. Think of what age group you normally see in the sled? A fair number are in the late teen to early 30s age range for sure. So, I'd say, in conjunction with the article, that it is safe to assume that a younger adult age group is far more likely to be injured.

I normally teach kids from ages 5 to 10 or so. I will agree that most loading and unloading incidents involve younger kids, either not knowing how to get on and off a lift or goofing off with friends. These injuries are almost never more than bruises. I'd say it is safe to assume that a fair number of routine slows and stops on lifts are due to inexperienced riders.

[DonaldMReif]

Lift Kid, on 09 July 2009 - 03:48 PM, said:

Skier,
I think Donald was referring to mostly ski-lift loading and unloading related injuries. That article you quoted was talking about fatalities overall. That includes death by tree, impact, etc. Think of what age group you normally see in the sled? A fair number are in the late teen to early 30s age range for sure. So, I'd say, in conjunction with the article, that it is safe to assume that a younger adult age group is far more likely to be injured.

I normally teach kids from ages 5 to 10 or so. I will agree that most loading and unloading incidents involve younger kids, either not knowing how to get on and off a lift or goofing off with friends. These injuries are almost never more than bruises. I'd say it is safe to assume that a fair number of routine slows and stops on lifts are due to inexperienced riders.

Revisiting this topic three years later, the stops and slows have started to get somewhat worse on lifts. I was at Keystone back in January and it was impossible to ride up any of the high speed quads without them slowing or stopping at least once, even the ones not on Dercum Mountain. I had a videotaped ride on the Santiago Express lift that slowed twice and stopped once. The Outback Express lift was slowing as well. And here's the thing: these are lifts that service no beginner terrain at all. I could understand issues with frequent stops and slows on the Ruby Express since it is a high speed six pack.

And I posted a link in another thread showing a kid who dealt with a flipped up seat on Polar Queen (the former Palmyra lift) at Telluride. But that's probably irrelevant.

Regarding myself, I have never had troubles loading or unloading any lifts at all without instructions. Well, I have had a few slips unloading the T-Bar at Breckenridge. My most recent misunload was one getting off the Paradise Express lift at Crested Butte in February. I think the ramp was slippery or one of my skis got caught with the chair.