11 replies to this topic

[Lager]

I'm working on a project for my Service Operations Management class. The project is to select an actual business that provides a service, my team chose a ski resort. For the project we are analyzing wait time management (lift lines). Part of our project requirements are to use actual data. The data we are hoping to get are:


Total number of lift riders for a given day for an entire ski resort. (Average Saturday)


Average Saturday Lift line waits for a High Speed Quad,


Average arrival rate at the bottom of a High Speed Quad lift line- how many people per hour arrive at the end of the lift line. (I figure someone migth have some data from the ticket scanners - showing how many tickets are scanned per hour on Saturday.) We only need the data from one day and one lift.

If there are any industry benchmarking data on maximum tolerable wait a guest will endure before their visit is negatively affected (not sure if such data for analyzing their lift lines is used?)

We have tried to get ahold of this information from several ski resorts in the Tahoe Area but not gotten any reply's. We are going to use the data to come up with suggestions for improving this problem or at least make it more tolerable.

Thanks for your help!

[aug]

Maybe this should be re-tilted as "Lift Que Study"

This post has been edited by aug: 06 May 2009 - 02:42 PM

[Ontariodude]

I'm pretty sure the statistics would range significantly, depending on how many people are visiting the mountain that day, location, weather, popularity, quality and difficulty of terrain the lift(s) access. No one ski hill is created equal, they are all unique in their own ways.

Example: a typical detachable quad at Le Massif, Quebec on the weekend, little to no que time. A detachable quad at say Horseshoe Resort, Ontario, LONG.

As well, not all quads have the same capacities, they can range quite a bit. A more specific scenario would be much easier to talk about IMO.

This post has been edited by Ontariodude: 06 May 2009 - 03:13 PM

[Lager]

Ontariodude, on May 6 2009, 04:09 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the statistics would range significantly, depending on how many people are visiting the mountain that day, location, weather, popularity, quality and difficulty of terrain the lift(s) access. No one ski hill is created equal, they are all unique in their own ways.

Example: a typical detachable quad at Le Massif, Quebec on the weekend, little to no que time. A detachable quad at say Horseshoe Resort, Ontario, LONG.

As well, not all quads have the same capacities, they can range quite a bit. A more specific scenario would be much easier to talk about IMO.

We understand that all hills are not created equal but we have to start somewhere. That is why we choose Saturday, since this is typically the peak of lift patrons. We are just trying to get some ruff numbers.

Thanks Again

[Peter]

Well here are a few numbers that should help you out. Generally, the closest chair spacing is 6 seconds, regardless of whether the lift is a fixed grip or detachable. This results in an ideal capacity of 600 people per hour per seat. Therefore, a double chair can ideally transport 1200 people per hour, a triple 1800, a quad 2400, and a 6pack 3600. However, it is important to keep in mind that this does not account for any stops, slow downs, or empty chairs. Furthermore, many lifts have further chair spacing resulting in lower ideal capacities.

There is an important distinction in lift queue length between a high speed quad and a detachable that have the same ideal capacity. Either one can load and unload 4 people every six seconds. However, a fixed grip lift "stores" more people in the air because the chairs are twice as close together. So a detachable will have more people waiting in the queue, but once they are on the lift it is a much faster ride.

If you have a particular North American resort in mind, I can give you the approximate capacities, lengths, line speeds, and ride times of all the lifts if that would help.

[Lager]

If you have a particular North American resort in mind, I can give you the approximate capacities, lengths, line speeds, and ride times of all the lifts if that would help.
[/quote]

If we could get Data for say Alpine Meadows. If not Somewhere close like Squaw, North Star, Homewood, Sugar Bowl.

Also if you know someone who could get us some data from the ticket scanners - showing how many tickets are scanned per hour on Saturday or just how many are scanned for an entire day for a particular lift. That is information that is hard to come by.

Thanks

[Jonni]

Lager, on May 6 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Average arrival rate at the bottom of a High Speed Quad lift line- how many people per hour arrive at the end of the lift line. (I figure someone migth have some data from the ticket scanners - showing how many tickets are scanned per hour on Saturday.) We only need the data from one day and one lift.

One thing to keep into consideration with this point is that the amount of ticket scanning may be affected when the queue gets long. As a for instance, while management doesn't like it, as the queue gets longer our ticket scanner's primary role turns to corralling skiers, and filling chairs. While we still will have scanner's out there, they don't get everyone.

[DonaldMReif]

Skier, on May 6 2009, 07:33 PM, said:

Well here are a few numbers that should help you out. Generally, the closest chair spacing is 6 seconds, regardless of whether the lift is a fixed grip or detachable. This results in an ideal capacity of 600 people per hour per seat. Therefore, a double chair can ideally transport 1200 people per hour, a triple 1800, a quad 2400, and a High Speed 6 pack 3600. However, it is important to keep in mind that this does not account for any stops, slow downs, or empty chairs. Furthermore, many lifts have further chair spacing resulting in lower ideal capacities.

There is an important distinction in lift queue length between a high speed quad and a detachable that have the same ideal capacity. Either one can load and unload 4 people every six seconds. However, a fixed grip lift "stores" more people in the air because the chairs are twice as close together. So a detachable will have more people waiting in the queue, but once they are on the lift it is a much faster ride.

If you have a particular North American resort in mind, I can give you the approximate capacities, lengths, line speeds, and ride times of all the lifts if that would help.

I've timed the spacing between chairs on the high speed quads at Vail, and I think the timing is about four seconds between chairs except on the Earl's Express, which is eight seconds, and the Pete's Express, which is six seconds. The Doppelmayrs can really fit a lot of chairs in, I'd estimate that at any given time on the Vista Bahn Express there are 100 chairs going up hill and on the cable, 100 coming down hill on the cable, and 8 in each terminal.

Overall, I believe that high speed quads and six packs are able to space at four seconds apart, and that is proof, as is on the high speed quads and six pack at Keystone, all but two of the detachables in Breckenridge*, and those at Winter Park.

*The spacing between chairs on the Imperial Express SuperChair can vary depending on how many chairs are out, as the lift can run with anywhere from 15 to 45 chairs. On Quicksilver Super6, the chairs are about four seconds apart on the cable and in the upper terminal, but it's eight seconds between loading at either load station because again every other chair goes to the other load station.


So ideally, if it's four seconds between chairs, you get about fifteen chairs a minute (sixty people loading every minute when lift is at capacity), which would translate to about 900 chairs an hour (which on a lift like the Mercury SuperChair would mean about 5 times for each chair, 154 chairs and five circuits), and 3600 people per hour, the same amount as on a six pack with six seconds. For something like the Mercury SuperChair to get through all 154 chairs, it would be about 10.3 minutes between when chair 1 is loading and when it reenters the bottom terminal.

For a six pack example, the Independence SuperChair. I also found about four seconds between chairs, and there are 119 of them. So math comes back:

15 chairs a minute
90 people a minute (remember, six people)
900 chairs an hour
5400 people per hour (with four seconds)

A chair will make (if no stops) 7.56 laps in that hour

[vons]

[Peter]

Donald, your information and calculations are wrong. Design capacities are not some mystery that have to be figured out through guessing. They are published in the lift construction survey, and from there it is easy to determine chair interval mathematically.

The highest six pack capacity in North America is 3600 which would mean a 6 second interval. 13 six packs in the US and Canada have this design capacity. Actual capacities of some six packs can be much lower, for example the one at Moonlight Basin is 1800.

As for quads, the highest design capacity is 3000, which would mean a 4.8 second chair interval. However, the vast majority of quads have a capacity of 2400 with a 6 second interval. The lowest quad capacity? 470 people per hour on the Burfield quad at Sun Peaks, that's 10 fewer people than the single chair at MRG can move per hour!

For Independence SuperChair:
7.2 Second interval
8.333... chairs per minute
50 people per minute
500 Chairs per hour
Ideal Capacity: 3,000 people per hour

You were off by nearly double!
Note: This is true unless chairs have been added since it was built.

[Vinny 2 Shoes]

DonaldMReif, on May 9 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

For something like the Mercury SuperChair to get through all 154 chairs, it would be about 10.3 minutes between when chair 1 is loading and when it reenters the bottom terminal.

The ride time on Mercury is 7 minutes.....

[DonaldMReif]

Vinny 2 Shoes, on May 11 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

The ride time on Mercury is 7 minutes.....

Make that 15 minutes, there's at least one good length stop on the way.