38 replies to this topic

[Keymech]

2milehi, on Mar 26 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

The Outpost Gondola at Keystone has ~45,000 hours on it. I believe that it is the original rope, but I will double check this.

Yes that is the original rope and the lift has closer to 48k on her. she had a cat hit a cabin while the lift was running at night near the return term. cabin swung so servere that cabin hit return term. missed rails and dropped to the ground. Rope was damaged and one strand replaced. other than that maybe a couple of broken wires near the tucks.

[Splicer]

There are certainly going to be exceptions. Dr. Gabor Oplatka (nicknamed the pope of rope) once said, you take a wire rope closing machine, manufacture 2 identical ropes with the same construction. You use the exact same personnel. You still come up with 2 ropes each having completely different characteristics. I have some ropes that I have inspected that have operated well past the formula stated in my earlier post, on the other hand, I have ropes that were retired much sooner than the stated formula. Also consider installations like the Jackson Tram, Peak to Peak and Silver Mt. Gondola each having multiple bull wheels at each terminal. These factors must be taken into consideration as well. But the formula provides a basic guideline to work from in determining a ropes life span. Using the formula coupled with MRT, will give you a good (approximate) idea on how long a rope will last.
Just got back from skiing 21" of fresh powder (just so you guys don't think I just sit around and thinking about ropes all of the time (yuk-yuk)) (Oh my aching knees)

[moura39]

how many times and that they lubricate the rope-wire per year?

[Keymech]

moura39, on Mar 27 2009, 05:22 AM, said:

how many times and that they lubricate the rope-wire per year?

I have been lubeing them once a year on a nice warm day with a couple of no rain days on the horizon. About 5 to 10 gallons of lube depending on the length of lift and application method.

[LuvPow]

I believe the rope on Steamboat Gondola is original rope also, with a section replaced only due to accident of some sort.

[zeedotcom]

We have an 89 triple that still has the original haul rope on it. Just over 1000 feet length I believe. It is also the first to open/last to close. Not sure on exact hours per year, but I'm pretty sure it is generally over 1000 most years. I know that for a short lift we are definitely doing well.

[Kicking Horse]

zeedotcom, on Mar 27 2009, 09:02 PM, said:

We have an 89 triple that still has the original haul rope on it. Just over 1000 feet length I believe. It is also the first to open/last to close. Not sure on exact hours per year, but I'm pretty sure it is generally over 1000 most years. I know that for a short lift we are definitely doing well.

Avg Line speed?

[2milehi]

Keymech, on Mar 26 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

Yes that is the original rope and the lift has closer to 48k on her. she had a cat hit a cabin while the lift was running at night near the return term. cabin swung so servere that cabin hit return term. missed rails and dropped to the ground. Rope was damaged and one strand replaced. other than that maybe a couple of broken wires near the tucks.

Thanks for chiming in. The Von Roll (old River Run Gondola) at Keystone had it's haul rope replaced in '89 and it had about 50,000 hours on it.

[zeedotcom]

Kicking Horse, on Mar 27 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

Avg Line speed?

I believe that we currently run at about 350 fpm during the winter. However, this lift will also get some hours put on it during the summer. Speeds will be lower for foot traffic, but I'm not sure how many hours that amounts to. Total hours at this point I believe are actually approaching 30,000.

[Aussierob]

For the Peak to Peak

Rope has done 27,000 kM so far. Divide by length of rope (8.8 kM), multiply by 6 Bullwheels = 18,409 cycles for one winter. We'll probably do half that again this summer, so three to five years rope life. Guess we'll be seeing Splicer back here sooner than we think.

[Manoj]

In our practice, we generally change the haul rope based on the following crteria :-

We consider haul rope replacement after two resplicing ie.

First Splice = At the time of replacement

First resplice = Due factor , Rope elongation or any other as rope deformation at splicing zone

Second Resplice = Due factor , Rope elongation or any other as rope deformation at splice zone.

We never do third resplice.

PLEASE COMMENT

[Outback]

Interesting theory, but I could not see it being applicable in every circumstance.
As mentioned in previous posts......no two ropes are the same (even in the same factory), every application is different including the amount of cycles placed on a cable and its loading. (50% vs. 100%) Only a periodic inspection with the measurement of the lay length and the diameter of the cable could reveal elongation and damage that can determine the life of that cable.
I have seen some cables spliced many times due to inproper handling, improper fabrication, shrinkage on the spool, crummy splicing technique, etc.
Also if the normal elongation length of a rope in its lifetime is more than four resplices due to a short carriage length X 4, how would your splice theory be correct?
My .02

[vonroll101]

Quite interesting.Ive worked on Vonroll type 101s all of my life..The rope replacement varies.At SeaWorld San Diego,they replace the rope every 5 years.The gondola goes over a body of salt water..At the San Diego Zoo,They replace there rope every 7 years..These 2 Vonroll type101s operate every day.

[Outback]

Manoj,
This is a splicing topic that interests me.....
Kelly, Splicer, Dino, Old School, Emax,Chuck, Janek, and any other respected compadres including Canada?????? Chime in and give us your opinion.
Manoj,
Reply to your reqested post.
Craig

[Kelly]

Members should note that member Manjo profile indicates he works for Usha Breco Limited a ropeway manufacturer.
Link: http://www.ushabreco.com/index.html
Usha Breco’s parent company is Usha Martin … an international wire and wire rope manufacturer. –
Link: http://www.ushamartin.com/index.htm

Manoj – I suspect you are relatively new to the industry and might just be repeating what information was given to you by your employers. For standards in other jurisdictions I would suggest reading ANSI and ISO documents for more information. I suspect some of your customers or Usha Martin probably have this information.
My personal experience and any scientific explanation for rope retirement would mirror what other industry members have been saying…retirement after 3 splices is plain silly. But perhaps your company uses a lower tensile strength steel and a ambiguous tension service factor and is concerned about approaching the minimum yield strength.
For more information you can go to the SORT – Subforum Rope – Topic - Wire Rope History…it has about 1000 pages of information that you might be interested in. If you could give a web link or post a PDF or attach an image of the “3 splice retirement standard” that your company mentions, the forum members would greatly appreciate your efforts.
Thanks,
Kelly

[mthornton]

1) Launch of detachable grip onto tuck
25 years ago I was asked by my boss at the time to build something to eliminate the launch of a grip onto a tuck. This was on the big Von Roll gondola at SSV, which at the time had quite prominent bulges at each tuck. It was pretty easy to do & worked perfectly... allowing the rope to last through that season, and eliminated grip-profile trip faults. The disturbance to the spacing control was minimal (a few meters per). Most folks didn't even know it was there, but the paint on the tucks told us it worked.

Of course on a healthy young rope there is minimal diameter difference (tucks vs elsewhere), but it seems to me that launching grips onto tucks is simply causing unnecessary wear to the exterior rope strands (at the tucks).

Since then I have always wondered why this (no-launch onto tuck) isn't commonly done. Detecting the tucks is very easy, as is using a stow clutch to hold a carrier back.
Any comments?

2) galvanized bright ropes
What is the experience out there thus far? Are you maintaining these ropes differently from traditional ropes?

[Splicer]

If the tucks are made well there is no significant problem with launching on them. The greater problem causing early fatigue in the splice area, especially over the tucked tail region, is a lack of lubrication. I stress to my clients to add additional lube in the splice area over the tucked tails and on the tucks. Even on galvanized ropes, because over time the zinc surface coating wears off and corrosion will develop.

[Splicer]

Splicer, on 21 February 2010 - 07:21 AM, said:

If the tucks are made well there is no significant problem with launching on them. The greater problem causing early fatigue in the splice area, especially over the tucked tail region, is a lack of lubrication. I stress to my clients to add additional lube in the splice area over the tucked tails and on the tucks. Even on galvanized ropes, because over time the zinc surface coating wears off and corrosion will develop.

Additionally: 90% of the time a rope will be retired due to work hardening in the splice area. A 3 splice criteria for rope replacement is not practical, I have many ropes that I have respliced 3 even 4 times and are still in service. Tucks are relocated at the time of the splice to establish new tuck locations. Admittedly, at the 3rd or 4th splice time frame in a ropes life cycle, work hardening will begin to appear and an estimate of remaining rope life can be made. MR testing can detect if the wire brittleness is causing internal wire breaks in the tuck/splice area.

[skier2]

LuvPow, on 27 March 2009 - 01:01 PM, said:

I believe the rope on Steamboat Gondola is original rope also, with a section replaced only due to accident of some sort.

Nope, it was replaced 2 years ago, but the new cable was the wrong shape and was making the ride exceptionally rough so it was replaced again. It is now on the 3rd replacement.