17 replies to this topic

[westisbest]

Back in Nov. of 05 I asked the question if anyone had heard of a lift that was designed specifically for snowboarders. Pretty much, the answer was no. There is now a patent pending (USPTO) and a PCT (international) for just that. You can find it by googling 'snowboarders ski lift' but you'll have to go through a page and a half of 'how to ride a ski lift if you're a snowboarder' sites. I'm talking with makers about it now, and looking for responses/support from the snowboarding community. Also, if you look at the pics, know that a non-boarder/skier drew them.

[skiersage]

Here is the link:
http://www.faqs.org/...app/20080307998

Just some thoughts: I noticed that it was cited that this invention would allow snowboarders to load the lift with both feet strapped in. However I believe that this wouldn't be true. The point of having one foot out of the binding is to control ones self on the loading board. Creating a carrier that could be loaded sideways would not fix this problem. Having a ski pole would though. It is already possible for snowboarders to unload a lift with both feet strapped in. I have done it many times in my day. It is already possible (though uncomfortable) to load a Riblet center pole double sideways. I have seen snowbooarders do it at big powderhorn before.

[LiftTech]

skiersage, on Jan 26 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Here is the link:
http://www.faqs.org/...app/20080307998

Just some thoughts: I noticed that it was cited that this invention would allow snowboarders to load the lift with both feet strapped in. However I believe that this wouldn't be true. The point of having one foot out of the binding is to control ones self on the loading board. Creating a carrier that could be loaded sideways would not fix this problem. Having a ski pole would though. It is already possible for snowboarders to unload a lift with both feet strapped in. I have done it many times in my day. It is already possible (though uncomfortable) to load a Riblet center pole double sideways. I have seen snowbooarders do it at big powderhorn before.

in my day, oh my???

[skiersage]

LiftTech, on Jan 26 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

in my day, oh my???

Let me re phrase that. It happened back when I used to snowboard. I have not been out snowboarding for a couple of years now.

[zeedotcom]

Line 10 in background: Skiers/Snowboarders responsibility code says that you must use devices to prevent runaway equipment. A snowboard is no more likely to fall off than a ski (less likely, actually) and is more likely to be retained due to the use of a leash in most cases.

Otherwise, the fact that the chair pushes you in the direction of travel is part of the point. While I didn't see the pictures, it would seem that you might still wind up with a bench with slots in it, creating more problems with misloads and injuries (due to riding a chair with "teeth").

The other point of having a foot out is that you are able to propel yourself away from the unloading area. When strapped in, a fall results in having to unstrap to gain enough mobility to get out of the way.

You are also never going to be able to get people to line up perfectly. As everyone on this forum knows, it doesn't matter how many "load hear" signs, boards, etc you have, people will still be uneven. With a bench style seat, there is some margin for error, with a design the way I understand it, there will be plenty of impact.

[phrakis]

There are a couple concepts in the industry that are all trying to solve the same problem. I don't think changing the chairlift is the best option (although I'm probably a little biased).

Based on the description in the patent, I'm assuming the modification may help boarders, but it also alienates skiers. Also, I don't see resorts making that kind of investment. Is it really going to make more snowboarders go to their mountain. I don't think so but then again, I don't own a resort.

Another patent out there is http://www.snorhino.com/slide1.cfm. This is a much smaller investment for a resort but it looks like it has limited applications and some downsides. (Although I would welcome the chance to try it out).

I've personally opted for another approach. Improve the boarders gear to make supporting the weight of the board easier. You can check out the details of my patent pending product at www.phrakis.com.

[westisbest]

You're right in the reading of the patent and loading/unloading. Something to fix. Overall though, the idea addresses the problem incurred by boarders 1) not being able to or 2) not being safely able to bind the back binding. Just one of these problems is the traffic at the top of the lift which is bottlenecked by boarders (and skiers, to some extent) having to sit to fasten binding. Another problem is the 90-degree turn required of boarders while getting off the current lift. Not only do boarders fall, but they take down others with them, causing delays, injuries, and (unfortunately) lawsuits. This lift has a couple of different designs, one being a chair for both goofy and regular boarders, the other being a chair for skiers, regular and goofy boarders. Being able to sit and disembark sideways with the back binding fastened (and done so safely on the way up the lift) just removes multiple headaches for area owners, boarders and skiers.

Just some thoughts: I noticed that it was cited that this invention would allow snowboarders to load the lift with both feet strapped in. However I believe that this wouldn't be true. The point of having one foot out of the binding is to control ones self on the loading board. Creating a carrier that could be loaded sideways would not fix this problem. Having a ski pole would though. It is already possible for snowboarders to unload a lift with both feet strapped in. I have done it many times in my day. It is already possible (though uncomfortable) to load a Riblet center pole double sideways. I have seen snowbooarders do it at big powderhorn before.
[/quote]

[westisbest]

I get the impression that you're not giving boarders much credit. Lining up sideways seems like a small task to learn compared to what they're capable of doing. And while I understand the visual of "teeth," it's more like sideways chairs, suited for both goofy/regular. And if boarders need to have a foot free to propel themselves away from the unloading area, then there's some particular distinction between skiers (who propel without a loose foot) and boarders, which I don't get. Sure, skiers have poles, but when you're on a quad, there's not much room for planting a pole, unless you want to take out a neighboring skier. Again, I don't think you're giving credit where credit is due. And no, people don't line up perfectly, but there's a much better chance of getting into the right spot when you're just having to look to the side than when you're having to look completely over your back. I think when you look at the body alignments, accident rates at disembarkation areas, lost time on stalled lifts, you'll see that this addresses all of it.

Line 10 in background: Skiers/Snowboarders responsibility code says that you must use devices to prevent runaway equipment. A snowboard is no more likely to fall off than a ski (less likely, actually) and is more likely to be retained due to the use of a leash in most cases.

Otherwise, the fact that the chair pushes you in the direction of travel is part of the point. While I didn't see the pictures, it would seem that you might still wind up with a bench with slots in it, creating more problems with misloads and injuries (due to riding a chair with "teeth").

The other point of having a foot out is that you are able to propel yourself away from the unloading area. When strapped in, a fall results in having to unstrap to gain enough mobility to get out of the way.

You are also never going to be able to get people to line up perfectly. As everyone on this forum knows, it doesn't matter how many "load hear" signs, boards, etc you have, people will still be uneven. With a bench style seat, there is some margin for error, with a design the way I understand it, there will be plenty of impact.
[/quote]

[westisbest]

Actually, it doesn't alienate skiers, it adds a layer of protection for them, because it allows boarders to get off the chair in a way that doesn't threaten to take them out. Along with that, one of the designs has a portion of the lift for both boarders (regular/goofy) and skiers.

Chairs are always being bought/replaced. And what's cool about this is that if a ski area is having a major boarding event, because the chairs are for use with the detachable grip cable, a particular lift can be modified with boarder-specific chairs and returned to normal usage following said event. And yeah, I think it is going to entice boarders to the areas that are willing to invest in this. Additionally, it's going to attract more skiers, because they know they're going to be able to disembark without getting taken out by newbie boarders.


There are a couple concepts in the industry that are all trying to solve the same problem. I don't think changing the chairlift is the best option (although I'm probably a little biased).

Based on the description in the patent, I'm assuming the modification may help boarders, but it also alienates skiers. Also, I don't see resorts making that kind of investment. Is it really going to make more snowboarders go to their mountain. I don't think so but then again, I don't own a resort.

Another patent out there is [url="http://www.snorhino.com/slide1.cfm"]http://www.snorhino.com/slide1.cfm[/url]. This is a much smaller investment for a resort but it looks like it has limited applications and some downsides. (Although I would welcome the chance to try it out).

I've personally opted for another approach. Improve the boarders gear to make supporting the weight of the board easier. You can check out the details of my patent pending product at www.phrakis.com.
[/quote]

[Lift Dinosaur]

westisbest-
Whom are you trying to convince with your retoric?
1) Yourself
2) Skiers
3) Snowboarders
4) Ski/Riding Areas
5) Lift Manufacturers

Dino

[westisbest]

Dino:

My apologies if something I wrote offended you. I'm convinced that this is a good solution to a current and growing problem, so I'm not trying to convince myself. Others have responded positively, so I haven't found myself spending time convincing folks. Most of the people I've talked to are pretty capable of making their own minds when information and/or ideas are shared. Again, my apologies.


westisbest-
Whom are you trying to convince with your retoric?
1) Yourself
2) Skiers
3) Snowboarders
4) Ski/Riding Areas
5) Lift Manufacturers

Dino
[/quote]

[Lift Dinosaur]

My apologies if something I wrote offended you. I'm convinced that this is a good solution to a current and growing problem, so I'm not trying to convince myself. Others have responded positively, so I haven't found myself spending time convincing folks. Most of the people I've talked to are pretty capable of making their own minds when information and/or ideas are shared. Again, my apologies.

I was not offended. I apologize to you if you felt that way.
I was just wondering why you thought there should be a specific lift design for snowboarders, and who would buy it (other than Echo Mountain in CO that is a dedicated "Snowboarder" area).
Most lifts are designed (and bought) to serve ALL uphill travelers.
Why one specifically for Snowboarders?

Dino

[coskibum]

hey, i ski at Echo

[Lift Dinosaur]

coskibum, on Feb 11 2009, 10:30 PM, said:

hey, i ski at Echo

Brad, I never figured you for a "park rat", but I do understand they have a few trails.
New Bumper Sticker "EYE SKI ECHO".
I crack myself up! Maybe I'll go into Marketing!.

Dino

[Kicking Horse]

Lift Dinosaur, on Feb 12 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Brad, I never figured you for a "park rat", but I do understand they have a few trails.
New Bumper Sticker "EYE SKI ECHO".
I crack myself up! Maybe I'll go into Marketing!.

Dino

Dino,

If you go into Marketing who will take your place at Poma? ;) You do your job too well.

[EagleAce]

I've never had aproblem loading or unloading on a board.

[k2skier]

EagleAce, on Feb 16 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

I've never had aproblem loading or unloading on a board.

Exactly! Because you're educated on how to use a chair lift.

I ski and ride and see no need for anything like this. If you can't get on or off the lift with out difficulty then go use an easier lift and practice or educate yourself on how to properly use the lift. It'll never happen, manufacturers would have addressed this already if it was an issue.

Add-I was a liftie from 1986-1990 and loaded boarders on fixed grip chairs without any incidents. My supervisor, Marty Johnson, always pounded buffed ramps and loading areas into us, very key on loading full lines.

This post has been edited by k2skier: 17 February 2009 - 08:39 AM

[Kicking Horse]

You know, As a liftie that sees most of the riders on Snowmass each day I would say that there is no reason to change the chairs. Just need to make sure the ramp is nice and smooth and not a wave.... Sure they fall but they normal fall at the end of the ramp so a slow will do while u help them up.

Just my .02 Euro Cents.