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#1 Kicking Horse

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 11:47 PM

To all the Groomers that we have on the forum, I would like to say thanks for all the hard work that you guys & girls do every day grooming. After tonight I have more respect the for you.


I spent 8 hrs tonight riding with a buddy of mine. And the amount of work that goes into grooming really surprised me.


So to all the Groomers out there, Thanks and keep up the good work.


(pix attached is Naked lady after spending 5 hrs on it. it took around 6 1/2 hrs to groom Naked Lady with 2 cats)

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Jeff

#2 spunkyskier01

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:22 AM

Thanks. Did you manage to actually stay awake for the whole 8 hours?
Everything is just loop-de-loops and flibertyjibbit

#3 Skiing#1

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:57 AM

My parents have own cabin on ski slope at Brighton. At 2 or 3 in the morning, my friends and I went out riding tubes on ski slope. Groomers saw us and yelled at us...out of ski slope area but they let us use half pipe area.

I don't know why groomers want people off ski slopes.

#4 102Terry

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:17 PM

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN.

#5 Kicking Horse

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 01:33 PM

View Postspunkyskier01, on Jan 20 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Thanks. Did you manage to actually stay awake for the whole 8 hours?



Yep I sure did. i woke up at 4am yesterday and went to sleep around 1:30am this morning.

As for sledding down ski slopes, If you hit something you should die...
Jeff

#6 Andoman

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 03:55 PM

View PostKicking Horse, on Jan 20 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Yep I sure did. i woke up at 4am yesterday and went to sleep around 1:30am this morning.

As for sledding down ski slopes, If you hit something you should die...


When I was a teen (dumb and invincible) we would sneak up rams head at boyne mountain with a toboggan at about 2 am. We would only make it about 2/3 of the way down before we would bail (I would always estimate that we would hit about mach 2). I'd never suggest doing such things now, but if you live you can chalk these thing up as life lessons later in adulthood. :wacko2: I know I'm off topic.

This post has been edited by Andoman: 20 January 2009 - 03:56 PM


#7 tahoeistruckin

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 01:51 AM

i had a few friends i'd ride along with at DV. Was a great way just to kill a few hours , waiting for the wife to finish up in the office, before our weekend started.

#8 Lift Kid

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:16 PM

I have always been fascinated by the art of snow grooming. I watch the cats at night when we're in Breckenridge. Kudos to all of you cat ops out there.

Quote

I don't know why groomers want people off ski slopes.


Umm...Think about it. It's dark outside, you are flying down a hill. There are cats that weigh A LOT coming up the hill, unable to see you, and unable to avoid having a collision should you be coming at them. You vs large metal machine with a blade and a tiller...who is gonna win? They want you to be safe. (and also to not fuel a law suit)

This post has been edited by Lift Kid: 21 January 2009 - 05:19 PM


#9 skier691

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:25 PM

View PostLift Kid, on Jan 21 2009, 08:16 PM, said:

I have always been fascinated by the art of snow grooming. I watch the cats at night when we're in Breckenridge. Kudos to all of you cat ops out there.



Umm...Think about it. It's dark outside, you are flying down a hill. There are cats that weigh A LOT coming up the hill, unable to see you, and unable to avoid having a collision should you be coming at them. You vs large metal machine with a blade and a tiller...who is gonna win? They want you to be safe. (and also to not fuel a law suit)


That, and also many dollars are spent each night grooming the slopes that you and others don't want to ski all tracked up. Most groomers take pride in their work and like it to stay looking nice until 9 am

#10 necskibum

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:02 PM

View PostKicking Horse, on Jan 20 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Yep I sure did. i woke up at 4am yesterday and went to sleep around 1:30am this morning.

As for sledding down ski slopes, If you hit something you should die...


Glad to hear you made all eight hours, not many do.

Sliding on any type of device after hours is nerve wracking for operators and extremely dangerous for the slider.
BR-350 Operator

#11 Kicking Horse

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:22 PM

View Postskier691, on Jan 21 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

That, and also many dollars are spent each night grooming the slopes that you and others don't want to ski all tracked up. Most groomers take pride in their work and like it to stay looking nice until 9 am




Burned 50 gallons of diesel JUST grooming the Naked Lady.... :(
Jeff

#12 garthd

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:12 PM

View Postskier691, on Jan 21 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

That, and also many dollars are spent each night grooming the slopes that you and others don't want to ski all tracked up. Most groomers take pride in their work and like it to stay looking nice until 9 am



That sounds more like the real reason to me. When I worked at Breck, I almost wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper to ask skinners to keep off out fresh groomed in the evening!
Garth Dickerman, BR-350 Jockey

#13 spunkyskier01

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 06:20 PM

In my experience (which isn't nearly as much as the other groomers on this board),People Vs. winch cat seems to always turn out very badly. And i do agree, after spending a good 2-3 hours and 20 passes on a trail, watching some one ski or snowmobile on my fresh cord is like watching some one do donuts in my lawn.

This post has been edited by spunkyskier01: 22 January 2009 - 06:21 PM

Everything is just loop-de-loops and flibertyjibbit

#14 Skiing#1

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 08:03 AM

Thank you for explaining me. Now I understand what is the satuation between people and the cat machines. The groomers don't use half pipe area and they let us use it for riding tubes. Now I know why...the groomers feel peace and not worry about the people. Interesting.

#15 skier691

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 08:10 PM

I am sure the park crew would like you out of the pipe also. Just got done taking about this very thing, one of our guys had guests dive bombing him last night, all you can do is hope they can stop. Please sled elsewhere or buy a tubing ticket and enjoy a more controlled enviroment

#16 Allan

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 08:17 PM

If there's a winch cat at the resort - the machine can be almost a kilometer away and still slice you in half with its cable.
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#17 CH3skier

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 03:20 PM

Found this on Youtube. Don't know if it's staged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympl4yXQ7CM...feature=related

#18 garthd

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 05:25 PM

View PostCH3skier, on Jan 28 2009, 04:20 PM, said:

Found this on Youtube. Don't know if it's staged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympl4yXQ7CM...feature=related


I don't know...that cat's tiller wasn't on the ground, and I'd think he'd want to create a nice, smooth surface for the rider...that's a scary video either way.
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#19 Vinny 2 Shoes

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:07 PM

View PostCH3skier, on Jan 28 2009, 04:20 PM, said:

Found this on Youtube. Don't know if it's staged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympl4yXQ7CM...feature=related



Seems kind of weird to me that someone would be that zoomed in on a cat going through the park....
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. "

#20 Skiing#1

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 07:18 AM

http://www.sltrib.co...92896?source=rv

Good grooming a must for elite resorts
Skiing » Snowcat drivers toil on trails so destination resorts can provide skiers with a value for their money.
By Mike Gorrell

The Salt Lake Tribune

Posted: 01/30/2009 04:31:01 PM MST

Click photo to enlargeOne of only four grooming machines of its size in the... (Jim Urquhart / The Salt Lake Tribune)«12345»The Canyons » All clear, the ski patrol reported at 5:17 p.m. on a Monday evening.

The groomers were off.

For the next seven hours, John "Bish" Neuhauser and eight swing-shift co-workers chugged up and down assigned areas of this expansive Park City-area resort in snowcats. They pushed snow around and combed it into a level surface of parallel grooves, fine "corduroy" in industry parlance.

Their shift done, another crew took over, manicuring more slopes until the lifts opened the next morning.

Good grooming is a must in the modern ski world, especially for destination resorts because -- along with snowmaking -- it virtually guarantees there is decent skiing somewhere. That helps guarantee steady business , a must in unsteady times.

"We cover 3,700 acres," observed swing shift supervisor Nick Moench, "so we have a lot of responsibility to get it ready for that person who comes the next day and buys a lift ticket. It's pretty amazing what we can accomplish in one night."

Every night. All winter. Sometimes in blinding blizzards, sometimes in the all-out illumination of a full moon. Watched at times by coyotes and owls, maybe even a UFO or two.

"Two times I saw things I couldn't take a stab at explaining," acknowledged Neuhauser, 47, who has groomed ski slopes for almost a quarter century.

The importance of grooming has expanded steadily during his tenure. Skiers and boarders expect it. Magazines judge resorts based, in part, on how well they do it. Marketers sell it, while pushing expensive lift tickets.

"The Utah ski industry markets to a vast range of ski abilities and styles," said Nathan Rafferty, president of Ski Utah, marketing arm for the state's 13 resorts. "Whether visitors prefer powder or corduroy, Utah's resorts constantly strive to provide perfect conditions for a variety of snow riders. Utah's variable terrain and grooming are as important as the snow itself."

Plugging Utah's famous tagline, he added " 'The Greatest Snow on Earth' makes for the greatest groomers on Earth."

Bish and the boys buy that.

"We're all skiers and sliders," Neuhauser said. "We like to groom powder almost as much as we like to ski it."

He has been doing it since 1985, a couple of years after coming west from Massachusetts as a ski bum. He was a lift operator at Park West (one of the earlier names for The Canyons) and worked parking at Deer Valley. But then his mechanical inclination, reinforced by summer jobs on fishing boats back East, steered him into grooming.

A veteran now, Neuhauser usually runs one of the big boys of The Canyons' snowcat fleet, the Prinoth BR500. Only four of these $400,000 units operate in North America. Two are at The Canyons.

The BR500 is 22 feet wide, when flaps on either side of the corduroy-carving tiller are out. It weighs 22,000 pounds and burns 6.5 gallons of diesel fuel each hour in its 500 horsepower Caterpillar engine. Its cab is like an airplane cockpit -- all windows, light switches and buttons to push.

Every so often he operates a "winch cat," a groomer with a scorpion-like arm that can unreel up to 3,300 feet of wire rope with a hook on the end. The hook goes around a tree or an anchor embedded in concrete, supporting the snowcat as it moves up and down especially steep runs.

Neuhauser is in the BR500 on this Monday evening, when light clouds shed the final flakes of a potent weekend storm. After checking the oil and the undercarriage through the machine's tank-like tracks, Neuhauser headed toward his main assignments -- Apex Ridge and Boa, two long intermediate runs off Super Condor Express lift.

The evening light was still vivid but destined to fade fast when he stopped off at Kestrel, a steep run that falls off Apex Ridge's left shoulder. He groomed its lower half so winch cat operator Mike Everett didn't have as much territory to cover after winching down Kestrel's diving top pitch, leveling its moguls.

By the time Neuhauser finished, it was dark. It would remain so for the last six hours of his shift, and the first six hours of the graveyard shift, whose workday-ending reward often is a spectacular sunrise or some other striking visual. "It gets kind of surreal sometimes when it gets misty," Neuhauser noted.

Dark is not a problem. Snowcats have powerful lights, casting shadows that help Neuhauser distinguish flat from bumpy, a distinction his machine quickly eliminates.

He really doesn't need to see too much to groom. In fact, "my favorite time is when we have a big storm with a lot of wind. It's great to be in a climate-controlled bubble watching the swirling action of the snow in the lights and the drifts on the surface. You're witnessing something most people don't experience -- substantial weather events. I like looking at weather."

Operating by feel as much as sight, Neuhauser hardly ever stops moving. His hands move joy sticks, one covered with little buttons, back and forth, left and right, adjusting the machine's numerous moving parts. He punches buttons. He munches gummi bears.

"For a person with pretty good aptitude, it takes a good three to four seasons to get really handy at it," Neuhauser said. "You never quit perfecting your techniques. You're always fidgeting with the controls to get as good a surface as you can."

Different snow demands different approaches. A hard snowpack has to be churned up a little more, so there is more overlap in each pass. But hardpack provides a better grip for snowcats than uncompacted snow, which can lead to some wild rides.

"In the old days, there was a lot more cowboy-style grooming and it was more exciting," he said. "We still do some of that, but the winch cat took the crazy out of it."

The world is more businesslike now, and grooming is popular with the relatively affluent baby boomers. Smooth surfaces appeal to folks now skiing into their 70s and 80s, said National Ski Areas Association spokesman Troy Hawks. "Boomers may be older, but they still seek the thrills of steep terrain and well-kept glades."

Providing that makes Neuhauser proud. "There's a feeling of satisfaction when you see your work in the morning."

mikeg@sltrib.com





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