16 replies to this topic

[Powdr]

Apparently PCMR's Payday lift had its main motor burn out on Friday (don't know the details, but that is what I heard). Then Mcconkeys (the same type of CTEC six-pack) was closed all day Saturday. Payday also closed mid day Saturday. Since then Mcconkeys has run slow and intermitantly. I'm guesing that they pulled the main motor out of Mcconkeys and put it into Payday, and are running Mcconkeys on the backup until they get a new one from CTEC. Does this make sense? Can a motor be changed out in a day? Doesn't CTEC (which is in SLC) stock replacements anyway? Just curious if anyone has a take on this.

Powdr

[liftmech]

This is indeed possible as Vail pulled a motor out of Chair 8 to run Chair 2 (both '86 or '87 Doppelmayr detachables) until Chair 2's motor could be repaired. It doesn't take much to pull a motor, just lots of manpower to wrangle the thing out of the motor room and put the new one in. There are only a few electrical connections from the drive, plus two or three small wires for the motor tach. It can be done. The only consideration is that the replacement motor be rated to the same or greater horsepower than the damaged one, for obvious reasons.

[iceberg210]

All of the highspeed lifts at PCMR are extremely simular and most likely they did simply change the motor.

On of the things I learned at Brianhead was a mechanic that I rode up a lift told me that they can change any of the motors on their lifts with any other motor on their lifts. This is one of the reasons they have tried to keep only Yan lifts of about the same age as well

[Powdr]

What about stock motor replacements @ CTEC in SLC? Don't they stock major parts like this? And if not, then wouldn't the motor be a standard design that can be flown/trucked in from the manufacturer quickly? I head up the manufacturing effort at a Biotech company and we either stock or have 24 hr turnaround on major parts/components for our production equipment so that we are not out business for very long. I can only imagine what kind of public image and sales damage would happen to a destination ski area if they didn't get a major lift up & running ASAP. If I were PCMR, I would insist that a stock replacement be available (either at CTEC or buy one and store it in the parts yard) from now on to avoid such a recurrence. An additional motor on hand (think airlines and extra jet engines) is a small price to pay for good PR.

Powdr

[SkiBachelor]

The reason why Doppelmayr CTEC probably doesn't keep extra motors for its high-speed lifts at its SLC office area is because each lift requires a different motor to operate at its best. But yes, there are several Doppelmayr CTEC high-speed lifts in Utah and only two that arn't.

But just to let you know, that both the Payday and the McConkey's Express have the same motor HP.

[Allan]

CTEC doesn't make electric motors... it's usually General Electric, and a bunch of others (can't remember names right now). I don't know if CTEC would stock them.... And most of the time, the motor can be repaired. Which would be cheaper than a replacement.

[liftmech]

As a prospective lift buyer you can specify what kind of electric motor and diesel engine you want; the manufacturer then gues to BBC or General Electric, and then Cummins or Cat (to name a few), to get that power source. As Allan said, they don't stock motors at the lift plant. For the areas comewhat close to a major city, it's pretty easy to drop the motor into a pickup or flatbed and drive it to an electrical shop (although ours go to Craig Motor and Machine, on the other side of Steamboat from us- and I know that's further than Denver )

[ccslider]

I'm kind of suprised that PCMR doesn't have full speed, full capacity APUs for these machines; kind of exactly the circumstances that you specify an APU for a lift installation. And, a lot of places also spec a terciary evacuation drive to serve as back up should a problem occur while continuing normal operations on APU. Even without the terciary evac drive, you can still operate with a full capacity APU although there is some risk in the event of a problem with the APU - like having to perform a rope evacuation - always lots of fun for all involved. With a full capacity APU there is no need to rob Peter to pay Paul and put another lift down while serving the offending motor.

[liftmechanic]

On that particular drive set up you cannot run the apu without the electric motor in place because the stopping distance becomes very long with out the rotating mass of the electric motor. You would have to install some sort of inertia disk to be able to bring the stopping distance to specs.

[Allan]

We're not allowed to operate without a secondary functional drive (z98 clause) so if the main drive goes down, we can evac the people on APU - but not keep running, which I don't totally agree with, but I don't make the rules! We send our electric motors to Castlegar - 40 mins from the resort.

[ccslider]

liftmechanic, on Mar 23 2004, 10:27 AM, said:

On that particular drive set up you cannot run the apu without the electric motor in place because the stopping distance becomes very long with out the rotating mass of the electric motor. You would have to install some sort of inertia disk to be able to bring the stopping distance to specs.

Good point liftmech. Seems like the addition of an inertia disk would be a good design adder.

[ccslider]

Allan, on Mar 23 2004, 10:35 AM, said:

We're not allowed to operate without a secondary functional drive (z98 clause) so if the main drive goes down, we can evac the people on APU - but not keep running, which I don't totally agree with, but I don't make the rules!  We send our electric motors to Castlegar - 40 mins from the resort.

As I recall, the ANSI B77 code allows continued operation on APU without a backup drive as long as the Operator can evacute the lift within the timeframe that the Operator defines. Can anyone with a B77 code book handy verify this?

[liftmechanic]

A rope evac can be your backup, if you have it in your plan.

[floridaskier]

Wow...any problems with Payday would really suck at PCMR- it gets really crowded there

[Powdr]

Thanks for the answers. Another question though: If motors are repairable, what is the typical down time? If it has to go off-site and shipping/trucking is involved, then I bet it is at least a week. Given that kind of down time, does it not seem easier to stock an extra motor in the parts yard (even if it does not exactly match every transmission)? I can't imagine that a motor costs that much, especially when compared to the potential lost revenue of inconvenienced customers.

Powdr

[Allan]

It is usually a week - at least thats how long it was when we fried one of ours. Motors can be quite pricey - and they have to almost be an exact match to be able to put it into service on a lift. It has to meet the horsepower requirements, RPMs have to be the same, etc - and it has to be compatible with the motor control systems. Whistler/Blackcomb do have a spare motor for the YANS, because they're pretty much standard - 400hp GE motors.

[liftmech]

We do as well- it actually sits in R-lift's motor room. (If nothing else it keeps the floor plates from vibrating. :---: ) There have been a few days in just the last two years where we've continued full operation on diesel when the power was out. As long as we have a rope evac plan and enough supplies, we are allowed to do that. We've got only one lift with an inertia disk (I-lift, 1994 Doppelmayr), and it is an integral part of the high-speed shaft so that you can run the lift without an electric motor.