20 replies to this topic

[Kicking Horse]

I would like to learn more about Drive Faults.

What are the normal causes of a Drive Fault?

What steps are taken to fix a Drive Fault?

If a lift resets and starts back up after a Drive Fault should a Techie be called to let them know?

[aug]

why would a liftie reset a drive fault with out consulting a lift tech ?????????

[Kicking Horse]

it's what lifties are trained for at this ski area. (not where I work had a discussion with a friend)

This post has been edited by Kicking Horse: 12 December 2008 - 03:52 AM

[lift_electrical]

Kicking Horse, on Dec 11 2008, 06:57 PM, said:

I would like to learn more about Drive Faults.

What are the normal causes of a Drive Fault?

Power problem, motor problem, tach and/or coupling problem, motor lead problem, contactor problem, field supply problem, SCR problem, power problem, redundant saftey problem, dirty power problem, regulator problem, blower motor problem, bridge cooling fan problem, mice problem, etc. Did I mention a power problem?

What steps are taken to fix a Drive Fault?

Determine what the drive is telling you the problem is or any other annuciation if possible, then take the steps neccasary to correct that problem. Based on the list above, it can be many different ways to correct this.

If a lift resets and starts back up after a Drive Fault should a Techie be called to let them know?

Well, first the operator should be calling his tech before he resets anything (in the perfect world). Most drives I am fimilar with don't have easy ways to look back at the previous faults.

[mthornton]

Alles touristen und non-technischen looken peepers! Das machinkontrol is nicht for gefengerpoken und mittengrabben. Oderwise is easy schnappen der springenverk, blowenfus, undpoppencorken mit spitzensparken. Der machine is diggen by experten only. Is nicht fur geverken by das dumpkopfen. Das rubber necken sightseenen keepen das cotton-picken hands in das pockets. So relaxen, und vatchen das blinkenlights.

Ski-lifts carry a bunch of people, at speed, up in the air. Fragile flesh & bone being carried aloft by a powerful rotating steel machine. Operators actions have consequences... such as
1) Your actions may result in uncontrolled acceleration / deceleration ... injury or death of passengers
2) Your actions result in significant damage to the machinery.
3) Your actions result in placing your employer as well as yourself in serious liability.

So why would you reset a drive fault unless you know exactly what the cause was, and what the consequences of a misguided reset/restart are.? Your operator manual should tell you to read the drive's fault display (before reseting) and immediately contact a maintenance person & inform them of the details of the fault. You should record the details of the drive fault concisely in the operator log. Let a qualified person make the decision on what to do.

CYA man!

[Lift Dinosaur]

[quote name='mthornton' date='Dec 12 2008, 04:42 PM' post='81078']
Alles touristen und non-technischen looken peepers! Das machinkontrol is nicht for gefengerpoken und mittengrabben. Oderwise is easy schnappen der springenverk, blowenfus, undpoppencorken mit spitzensparken. Der machine is diggen by experten only. Is nicht fur geverken by das dumpkopfen. Das rubber necken sightseenen keepen das cotton-picken hands in das pockets. So relaxen, und vatchen das blinkenlights.

I gotta remember this one!

Dino

[Kicking Horse]

Well the Area in question says that if a drive fault resets and lift starts just to write it in the log. I disagree with that policy. (and no it's not where I work).

[Jonni]

I'm not 100% sure on the policy that we are supposed to follow at my work, but what I have practiced is that if you get a fault like that, quickly write it down and write down anything that was even a little bit out of the ordinary. Then try to reset the fault. If the fault resets attempt to restart the lift watching very closely for anything out of the ordinary. Immediately notify maintenance, requesting that they stop by in person. That way if the lift starts and you have made the call where shortly thereafter it happens again a lift mechanic or sparky is already on the way. If the fault resets and the lift will not stay running after one try or the fault will not reset, it's an automatic code Grey (lift down). Code Grey procedures then go into effect. This is something that I would definitely discuss with a supervisor or mechanic, even if the fault has never occurred while you have been operating the lift.

[liftmech]

Yup, what you all said. Drive faults are indications that something may be seriously wrong with your system ('look at me! stop by and see me!'). Everywhere I've worked drive faults are automatic breakdowns and require that a lift mechanic or electrician stop by and verify what the fault is before resetting it (as has been said, many drives don't 'remember' faults once they are reset). For example, we had an operator call in a 'load limit' on one of our old Yans this week. This could be caused by dragging brakes, binding gearbox, or binding drive shafts, not just something drive-related. But lifties are not trained to diagnose these issues, so a mechanic should always be there to check this call out.

[Emax]

Think of the general "drive fault" indicator as the "CHECK ENGINE" light. There's more information hidden somewhere.

[sd40t-2]

Gads! it's been a while since my last post.....

I've since moved on to working in the mass-transit industry working on Light-rail vehicles but,

When I was still working at a local resort a couple of years ago as an operator, we learned that certain lifts had "personality traits" and we grew to recognize them.

Even though it was still protocol to call in lift faults, if a mechanic knew I was on a particular lift they would talk me through resets since they knew I was a little more on the ball than other operators. Most of the time faults were confined to minor spacing errors, false de-ropement proximity sensor errors and tower circuit faults. I was one of only a few operators who was trained how to pre-op a detachable-grip lift, knew how to move through the PLC control screens and adjust lift speeds based on authorizations from lift mechanics over the phone. Likewise mechanics usually were only at my lift to do AM/PM operating inspections, weekly APU checks and fault inspections.

There were a couple of faults that would come up but didn't stop the lift. These were usually spacing faults and didn't happen except on rare occasions.

All in all I think I grew a great appreciation for what it takes to make these machines work. I only wish that the diagnosis capabilities of the vehicles I now work on had the capabilities of most PLC driven lifts.

[2milehi]

Emax, on Dec 27 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

Think of the general "drive fault" indicator as the "CHECK ENGINE" light. There's more information hidden somewhere.

Perfect analogy Emax (I'm also a car guy).

[Emax]

2milehi, on Dec 28 2008, 08:36 AM, said:

Perfect analogy Emax (I'm also a car guy).

Is that a porta-pottie in the back of your pick-up?

How convenient!

[mthornton]

Emax, on Dec 27 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

Think of the general "drive fault" indicator as the "CHECK ENGINE" light. There's more information hidden somewhere.

Good analogy indeed

Goddamn check-engine light... comes on for god-knows what stupid reason... Our latest truck (Chevy), the "check engine" comes on when the wheels slip on ice, and needs to be reset by a Chevy mechanic with a diagnostics computer hooked up. My Toyota is smart enough to tell me there was a torque error. Chevy just tells me to check the goddamn engine.

And many ski-lifts (including very new) are not any better, with very poor annunciation of drive-faults. ie "user diag #27", which corresponds to a speed-deviation fault.... but yer just supposta know. And when there is a little power-bump... the drive fault display isn't much different. There is no effort to discriminate between a drive-fault which is operator-reset permissive, and a non-reset / non-permissive fault (ie, di/dt, tacho-loss, processor stall)

I love to rant... but maybe a general solution is possible.

M

[2milehi]

Emax, on Dec 28 2008, 09:52 AM, said:

Is that a porta-pottie in the back of your pick-up?

How convenient!

LOL...

[Jonni]

mthornton, on Dec 29 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

Good analogy indeed

Goddamn check-engine light... comes on for god-knows what stupid reason... Our latest truck (Chevy), the "check engine" comes on when the wheels slip on ice, and needs to be reset by a Chevy mechanic with a diagnostics computer hooked up. My Toyota is smart enough to tell me there was a torque error. Chevy just tells me to check the goddamn engine.

And many ski-lifts (including very new) are not any better, with very poor annunciation of drive-faults. ie "user diag #27", which corresponds to a speed-deviation fault.... but yer just supposta know. And when there is a little power-bump... the drive fault display isn't much different. There is no effort to discriminate between a drive-fault which is operator-reset permissive, and a non-reset / non-permissive fault (ie, di/dt, tacho-loss, processor stall)

I love to rant... but maybe a general solution is possible.

M

When I had my Toyota Tacoma a few years ago my Check Engine light was on all the time. If someone told me about it I would usually stop, open the hood, make sure that the engine was there and proceed to close the hood and continue on my way. Usually saying: "Engine.....Check"

OK, back on topic.

[RyanNugent]

I work in a tubing park in Canada at a resort. We use the old fasion surface rope tows to drag the tubes up the hill. Our hill is to steep for a carpet. We get drive faults all the time, the techs say it happens when the life is stopped for an amount of time. We reset it just like a home computer. It can be a piss off.

[Allan]

The drive controller on Silverlode overheated (apparently) and all the drive display said was "communications error."

mthornton, on Dec 29 2008, 06:17 PM, said:

Good analogy indeed

Goddamn check-engine light... comes on for god-knows what stupid reason... Our latest truck (Chevy), the "check engine" comes on when the wheels slip on ice, and needs to be reset by a Chevy mechanic with a diagnostics computer hooked up. My Toyota is smart enough to tell me there was a torque error. Chevy just tells me to check the goddamn engine.

And many ski-lifts (including very new) are not any better, with very poor annunciation of drive-faults. ie "user diag #27", which corresponds to a speed-deviation fault.... but yer just supposta know. And when there is a little power-bump... the drive fault display isn't much different. There is no effort to discriminate between a drive-fault which is operator-reset permissive, and a non-reset / non-permissive fault (ie, di/dt, tacho-loss, processor stall)

I love to rant... but maybe a general solution is possible.

M

[mikest2]

ABB ACS800 ?

[Allan]

mikest2, on Mar 2 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

ABB ACS800 ?

DCS 500

This post has been edited by Allan: 03 March 2009 - 05:35 PM