14 replies to this topic

[Peter]

I took some pictures of this lift a few years ago at Lost Trail, Montana. It's called Huckleberry and was installed used sometime around 2002. The top terminal and towers are 100% Hall but the chairs look unlike any Hall chairs I have ever seen before. The hanger arms are CTEC. Does anyone know where this lift came from and/or what kind of chairs these are? Also, does anyone know what brand the Saddle Mountain lift is or where it came used from?

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[Peter]

Questions answered due to the help of Judy at Lost Trail. Huckleberry came from Mt. Snow, Vermont and those were the original Hall chairs. Saddle Mountain came from Grand Targhee and was the Shoshone lift there. It's really nice when resorts actually know something about their lifts. Most of the big ones send you to the marketing departments who have no idea. The little ones don't even have marketing departments!

[Lift Dinosaur]

BINGO!!

Dino

[Andoman]

Skier, on Oct 22 2008, 11:57 PM, said:

I took some pictures of this lift a few years ago at Lost Trail, Montana. It's called Huckleberry and was installed used sometime around 2002. The top terminal and towers are 100% Hall but the chairs look unlike any Hall chairs I have ever seen before. The hanger arms are CTEC. Does anyone know where this lift came from and/or what kind of chairs these are? Also, does anyone know what brand the Saddle Mountain lift is or where it came used from?

something about those hanger arms on those chairs makes me feel a bit uneasy.

[Lift Dinosaur]

Andoman, on Oct 25 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

something about those hanger arms on those chairs makes me feel a bit uneasy.

Why the concern about the hanger arms? They're the newest thing on the lift?
Are you doubting CTEC's engineering review?

Dino

[Andoman]

Lift Dinosaur, on Oct 25 2008, 02:38 PM, said:

Why the concern about the hanger arms? They're the newest thing on the lift?
Are you doubting CTEC's engineering review?

Dino

Yes I'm doubting CTEC's engineering review. The connection is my concern not the actual hangers, I'm sure if the chair fell to the ground the hanger would be just fine on the line. My experience with steel and bolted connection design is when bolting new steel to old steel the old steel is usually the problem due to inconstancies in the metal fatigue. I doubt they examined each chair in great detail, but I could be wrong. I'm also guessing this was a field install by the ski hill itself, cough cough "YAN style" under my breath. My second question would be, wouldn't it be cheaper just to buy new carriers for the system? If you look at the labor and material costs I would have to think it would be close to the same cost, but then again I'm not sure of the cost of new chairs ether.

[Carl]

FWIW,
The original Thunder Lift, a Mueller, had the seats bolted to the bails via 4 approx. 3/8" bolts. JH Lift Maint. added some welding to the connection......


Carl

[aug]

Andoman, on Oct 25 2008, 11:00 AM, said:

Yes I'm doubting CTEC's engineering review. The connection is my concern not the actual hangers, I'm sure if the chair fell to the ground the hanger would be just fine on the line. My experience with steel and bolted connection design is when bolting new steel to old steel the old steel is usually the problem due to inconstancies in the metal fatigue. I doubt they examined each chair in great detail, but I could be wrong. I'm also guessing this was a field install by the ski hill itself, cough cough "YAN style" under my breath. My second question would be, wouldn't it be cheaper just to buy new carriers for the system? If you look at the labor and material costs I would have to think it would be close to the same cost, but then again I'm not sure of the cost of new chairs ether.

As a laymen in the lift industry you should have no reason to doubt a P.E. that specialises in the lift industry . Just what is your experience with bolted steel to steel connections that makes you doubt the hanger arm/ chair bail connection? Another factor to consider is the speed of the lift .... How fast does it run and how much vibration are the carrier assys subjected to on the line?
Speculating on how someone assembled their chairlift is just that speculation. Have you priced new carriers for your lift lately? A very hefty capital project. As long as the carriers were inspected (NDT) prior to their new life on this lift with new hangers and they are ndt'd on a regular schedule I would have no qualms riding this lift with my mother.

This post has been edited by aug: 08 November 2008 - 08:17 AM

[Andoman]

aug, on Nov 8 2008, 11:17 AM, said:

As a laymen in the lift industry you should have no reason to doubt a P.E. that specialises in the lift industry . Just what is your experience with bolted steel to steel connections that makes you doubt the hanger arm/ chair bail connection? Another factor to consider is the speed of the lift .... How fast does it run and how much vibration are the carrier assys subjected to on the line?
Speculating on how someone assembled their chairlift is just that speculation. Have you priced new carriers for your lift lately? A very hefty capital project. As long as the carriers were inspected (NDT) prior to their new life on this lift with new hangers and they are ndt'd on a regular schedule I would have no qualms riding this lift with my mother.

Well as a civil engineer also with a PE that used to work for a materials consultant (soil and materials engineers Inc.) I'm speaking from past experience. As for the cost and assembly of the project I was guessing, but with a smaller ski area I would think these assumptions are well within the realm of possibilities.

This post has been edited by Andoman: 08 November 2008 - 12:38 PM

[coskibum]

not to play the engineering game, but a geotech engineer typically does not have much experience with steel design. that's where the structural engineer comes into play.

[Andoman]

coskibum, on Nov 8 2008, 09:22 PM, said:

not to play the engineering game, but a geotech engineer typically does not have much experience with steel design. that's where the structural engineer comes into play.

Read the materials section of the website, we (at the time I worked for the company) perform NDT testing, steel connection testing, steel erection inspection, etc. We also own the largest break / tension machine east of the mississippi. The company did everything from road material design, foundation design, to inspection services.

[coskibum]

ah, ok...that's different from the geotechs I work with

[Andoman]

coskibum, on Nov 9 2008, 10:31 AM, said:

ah, ok...that's different from the geotechs I work with

Yeah the company started the same as everyone else with just geotech and basic construction testing then branched out into a bunch of specialized markets. We all had to be multi-skilled, it was kind of cool because I never knew where or what I'd be working on from day to day. But it was also difficult not to pick one thing to specialized in and run with it. That's why I left, oh and the pay stunk.

I'm I know.

[Outback]

Just a guess here.
Hall lift installed in 2002....probably needed a bullwheel upgrade with proper retainage hence CTEC bw's, hangers and grips.

[Tramway Guy]

Skier, on Oct 24 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

Questions answered due to the help of Judy at Lost Trail. Huckleberry came from Mt. Snow, Vermont and those were the original Hall chairs. Saddle Mountain came from Grand Targhee and was the Shoshone lift there. It's really nice when resorts actually know something about their lifts. Most of the big ones send you to the marketing departments who have no idea. The little ones don't even have marketing departments!

Sorry, those were absolutely not the original Hall chairs...guaranteed. But they might have been modified by Mt. Snow before the lift was sold to Lost Trail.