25 replies to this topic

[skierdude9450]

Last weekend I rode up the Iron Mountain Tramway to Glenwood Caverns, and it looks like a power line is suspended on the towers. Does anyone know what this is for?

Here you can see the yellow cable and on the towers there is grounding for what I assume to be the power line:

[Lift Dinosaur]

skierdude9450, on Aug 13 2008, 11:08 AM, said:

Last weekend I rode up the Iron Mountain Tramway to Glenwood Caverns, and it looks like a power line is suspended on the towers. Does anyone know what this is for?

Here you can see the yellow cable and on the towers there is grounding for what I assume to be the power line:

What you see in the photo are actually 2 unrelated items.
1) The three bundled yellow pipes in the middle of the line (suspended from tower to tower with a 5/8" messenger cable) are: Water uphill; Natural gas uphill; and Grey Water from the on hill septic stsyem downhill.
2) The device you see on top of the tower, including the insulators and cables are deflection protectors in case the powerline that runs overhead has a failure.

ANSI Standard does not allow power about 24V to be transmitted in overhead cables on lifts.

Dino

[Peter]

This page, http://www.tramway.net/My_Lift.htm has lots of information on this project. It says there is an elevated natural gas line in addition to the water and sewer.

[vonrollskyway1]

now does ansi regulators say the same thing for grandfathered lifts...i.e. vonroll type 101s??here in san diego at seaworld san diego they run a 120 volt line up the center for power on top of there 2 towers..

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[mikest2]

vonrollskyway1, on Aug 22 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

now does ansi regulators say the same thing for grandfathered lifts...i.e. vonroll type 101s??here in san diego at seaworld san diego they run a 120 volt line up the center for power on top of there 2 towers..

I don't quite understand your question, but the Z98 code allows power to be run up a tower, but not from tower to tower aerially, I assume the B77 is the same (?)

[vonrollskyway1]

i believe the granfather code is b77.my question is ,your saying a power line more than 24 volts isnt allowed,then how does ansi codes allow a vonroll lift to run power from station to tower???

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[skierdude9450]

Are you sure that's 120 volts, though?

[Lift Dinosaur]

ANSI B77.1 is the governing standard for Passenger Ropeways. Installations are regulated by the version that was in effect at the time of installation. Subsequent changes allow for the "Grandfather clause" which means you do not have to bring the installation up to the newly adopted standard, unless the requirement is "de-Grandfathered" or the installation is relocated.
If in fact they are running 110/120V overhead, this could be why they are able to do it.

Dino

[aug]

Ok maybe I am nit picking here but what about phones (ma bell) and ac ring voltage . Is that not between 88 vac and 48 vac? Is this allowed technicly? I know it is done at nearly every area I have been at. I will look at the b77 when I get to work on monday and see what the letter of the law is.

[vonrollskyway1]

its a 110 volt line.i have a friend that is the lead mechanic on that vonroll type 101.

[Lift Dinosaur]

aug, on Aug 23 2008, 02:01 PM, said:

Ok maybe I am nit picking here but what about phones (ma bell) and ac ring voltage . Is that not between 88 vac and 48 vac? Is this allowed technicly? I know it is done at nearly every area I have been at. I will look at the b77 when I get to work on monday and see what the letter of the law is.

Aug- Nit Picking is accepted and correct.

B77.1-1999 Section 4.2.1.4 Voltage limitations for overhead circuits
Signal, communication, and control circuits may be supported between towers that support the aerial lift. Voltage on overhead or exposed circuits shall be limited to 50 volts with the exception of the intermittent ring-down circuits for telephone systems.

B77.1-2006 Section 4.2.1.4 Overhead Cables
Only signal, communication,and control circuit cables may be supported between towers that support the aerial lift. Voltage shall be limited to low voltage, 24 volts nominal.
EXCEPTION: Circuits for telephone systems may exceed the low voltage reguirements.

That's what the books say...

Dino

[vonrollskyway1]

Lift Dinosaur, on Aug 23 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Aug- Nit Picking is accepted and correct.

B77.1-1999 Section 4.2.1.4 Voltage limitations for overhead circuits
Signal, communication, and control circuits may be supported between towers that support the aerial lift. Voltage on overhead or exposed circuits shall be limited to 50 volts with the exception of the intermittent ring-down circuits for telephone systems.

B77.1-2006 Section 4.2.1.4 Overhead Cables
Only signal, communication,and control circuit cables may be supported between towers that support the aerial lift. Voltage shall be limited to low voltage, 24 volts nominal.
EXCEPTION: Circuits for telephone systems may exceed the low voltage reguirements.

That's what the books say...

Dino

does it say anything about the lift being under the grandfather clause?? robert

[aug]

Ahhh,,, the exception to the rule.....

[vonrollskyway1]

aug, on Aug 23 2008, 04:09 PM, said:

Ahhh,,, the exception to the rule.....

sorry if im a nit picker.ive allways have had a place for vonroll type 101s.i also build model vr 101s.a very great lift in my book.

[Allan]

We get more than you (now)!!

3.30.1.2
Safety circuits shall not exceed 48 V (nominal).

3.30.1.3
Only signal, communication, control, and safety circuits of 48 V (nominal) or less shall be carried
between towers that support the ropeway.

Lift Dinosaur, on Aug 23 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Aug- Nit Picking is accepted and correct.

B77.1-1999 Section 4.2.1.4 Voltage limitations for overhead circuits
Signal, communication, and control circuits may be supported between towers that support the aerial lift. Voltage on overhead or exposed circuits shall be limited to 50 volts with the exception of the intermittent ring-down circuits for telephone systems.

B77.1-2006 Section 4.2.1.4 Overhead Cables
Only signal, communication,and control circuit cables may be supported between towers that support the aerial lift. Voltage shall be limited to low voltage, 24 volts nominal.
EXCEPTION: Circuits for telephone systems may exceed the low voltage reguirements.

That's what the books say...

Dino

[vonrollskyway1]

Allan, on Aug 24 2008, 11:58 AM, said:

We get more than you (now)!!

3.30.1.2
Safety circuits shall not exceed 48 V (nominal).

3.30.1.3
Only signal, communication, control, and safety circuits of 48 V (nominal) or less shall be carried
between towers that support the ropeway.

.i still dont understand the grandfather clause to allow seaworld san diego to run 110 volts.the ride was built in 1967.can you please elaborate more on the grandfather clauses..thanks

[Allan]

From wikipedia:

A grandfather clause is an exception that allows an old rule to continue to apply to some existing situations, when a new rule will apply to all future situations. It is often used as a verb: to grandfather means to grant such an exemption. For example, a "grandfathered power plant" might be exempt from newer and tougher pollution laws. Often, such a provision is used as a compromise, to effect new rules without upsetting a well-established logistical or political situation. This extends the idea of a rule not being retroactively applied.

[Emax]

You see - that 110 volts was only dangerous to 1967 technicians. Since the machine is grandfathered, 2008 technicians needn't worry about being shocked off a tower.
It's all quite simple when you think about it.

[vonrollskyway1]

Emax, on Aug 24 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

You see - that 110 volts was only dangerous to 1967 technicians. Since the machine is grandfathered, 2008 technicians needn't worry about being shocked off a tower.
It's all quite simple when you think about it.

the ride also goes over a body of salt water.i wouldnt want to put 110 volts underwater.salt water at that.thanks for clarifying the grandfather clause.i dont know of any vonroll type 101s that operate at any ski resort in the usa.the last vonroll type 101 that i recall that was even close to the usa was the lake louise gondola.i wonder why no one wanted a vr 101.. in the picture, the lake louise gondola a vr 101.stands but doesnt operate..

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[skier2]

Well, for one thing, by the time gondolas actually caught on in the US and major resorts had the money to put behind them, Bell made larger, faster ones; by the early '80s, Doppelmayr made larger, faster ones yet. The 101 really isn't practical, considering the low capacity, lack of automation, and gravity grip.