19 replies to this topic

[Callao]

When we see lightning or hear thunder while on the lift, the lift immediately closes, and shuts down after the last chair cone arrives.

But what happens if a lift, full of people, gets zapped? Mechanical damage? People damage?

[skierdude9450]

There's only one way to find out.

[mikest2]

Had one hit just as the last passenger unloaded, it drew an arc from the top liftee's head to to the SP phone. The phone handset was okay, but it totalled a 250hp DC motor and cost me a gearbox rebuild

[Peter]

In 2000, lightning struck a triple chair at night at Waterville Valley, NH. The drive terminal caught fire and the haul rope eventually snapped. The lift was rebuilt by Doppelmayr.

[Allan]

Motherlode got hit during operations a few years back - it cost us about 12 100 milliamp fuses, a couple diodes and a relay. Not so bad! Lightning does what it wants - it just didn't feel like wrecking our equipment that day! Another time Silverlode got hit during line maintenance in the summer and it cooked the PLC and a couple random cards. Yet another time Red got hit in the summer (no one near the lift) and it cooked the 300 amp main breaker and blew the contactor cabinet door open. Oh and one more... the T-Bar got it and cooked the 600 - 120/240 volt transformer for the lights, etc.

[not really a liftie]

Had one hit just as the last passenger unloaded, it drew an arc from the top liftee's head to to the SP phone. The phone handset was okay, but it totalled a 250hp DC motor and cost me a gearbox rebuild

So did anything happen to the top liftie? Reminds me of Huckleberry Finn, when the steam ship caught on fire. Nobody got hurt but killed a couple of "workers".

[Callao]

So it sounds like lightning is mostly just a threat to equipment, and people on the ground. Are people on the lift in danger as well? Are there any cases where there have been injuries?

[aug]

I will put it this way ..... you are much safer riding the chair than being on a lift tower. Unless you are riding a chair past a tower when the lightning hits that tower. One thing is for sure it is best to avoid large ,tall, grounded steel objects while in the vicinity of a lightning storm as this tends to be path of least resistance. This is my opinion and I may be wrong but... better safe than dead

[skisox34]

I may be wrong on this but barring being near a lift tower wouldn't you be like a bird on a highline?

This post has been edited by skisox34: 31 July 2008 - 08:23 AM

[WBSKI]

When I was in Europe, I rode on this lift in the middle of a lightning storm: http://lift-world.in.../1239/datas.htm
I was surprised they didn't stop the lift, when there was torrential wind/rain, and a couple lightning strikes <300m's from the top station. I suppose they are planning to replace this lift in the next few years as it has gravity launches (to accelerate the cabins onto the line), and only carries 4 people/cabin.

At another point, I was riding on a single chair, which they shut down because of lighting for 20mins or so.

[liftmech]

Electricity flows to ground through the path of least resistance (right, emax?) so if you're on the lift, the current may flow through the haul rope but you're not in its actual path (which would be to ground via a tower). The guys who maintain the cross-country transmission lines- 200,000 volts!- work on them while the lines are live. There is no danger unless they go phase-to-phase (unlikely as the phases are spread apart to prevent this) or phase-to-ground, i.e. touching a tower. This is the same reason flocks of sparrows can sit quite comfortably on powerlines.

As for damage, lightning can do physical damage. If it goes to ground through a bullwheel, for example, it can weld the bearings into an unrecognisable mass of steel. I've seen sheave liners with holes in them from the strike finding ground through that sheave.

[not really a liftie]

"Electricity flows to ground through the path of least resistance "

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure electricity will flow through all available paths.

[Callao]

not really a liftie, on Jul 31 2008, 09:18 PM, said:

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure electricity will flow through all available paths.

Well, I guess that depends if you think that the air beneath your chair is an available path.

You know how to sit in a lightning storm when you're out in the bush? Croutch down, feet together, and hands on your feet--hopefully your arms will divert most of the shock (rather than your heart) when you get blasted.
It also helps if your buddies are a hundred feet away or so, so instead of getting zapped too, they can give you CPR after it stops raining.

[not really a liftie]

Callao, on Aug 1 2008, 02:17 AM, said:

Well, I guess that depends if you think that the air beneath your chair is an available path.

You know how to sit in a lightning storm when you're out in the bush? Croutch down, feet together, and hands on your feet--hopefully your arms will divert most of the shock (rather than your heart) when you get blasted.
It also helps if your buddies are a hundred feet away or so, so instead of getting zapped too, they can give you CPR after it stops raining.

My point is that lightning will take every available path to ground, not just the one of least resistance. In fact the paths with higher resistance are more likely to see worse damage. And yes I think the air beneath my seat could be an available path, especially if the air is moist. I sure don't want to test the theory that you are completely safe if you are riding in a chair during a lightning storm, I'd rather be in the bar at the Lodge. Someone should start a thread with pictures of lightning damage to lifts, we could add quite a few.

This post has been edited by not really a liftie: 01 August 2008 - 12:30 PM

[Callao]

I'm pretty sure that the "path of least resistance" will be the chosen (at least primary) path. That will be the cable, and the nearest few towers. Maybe the nearest chair too--especially if that carrier's skiers are taking a leak.

[skihood]

From the Mt. Bachelor website today (Tuesday 8/19):

"Pine Marten lift will not operate Tuesday due to electrical storm damage."

www.mtbachelor.com

[SkiBachelor]

One of the local news stations here in Eugene (KEZI) has a skycam located on the top of our EPA lift at Willamette Pass and when they went up there to work on it, they removed the lightening rod and bulb and it appears they took everything with them since we can't find it. My guess it was retaliation after we told them to fix it because of how we rely on this camera for our website (I personally don't like it). I guess if the lift does get hit, KEZI will have to pay for the damages.

[Allan]

Well let's see... Motherlode, Paradise and Red all got hit today. Luckily Motherlode and Paradise have no panels in them at this point. The only warning of the storm we got was lightning hitting the peak of Record mountain and then hitting Motherlode which was about 300 metres from where we were. We left at that point! I was driving down on a quad and the lightning was so close and bright it was blinding!!

[RibStaThiok]

Any damage?

[Allan]

RibStaThio, on Aug 25 2008, 06:13 PM, said:

Any damage?

Don't know yet - well the top webcam stopped working! The storm rolled in at about 3 so there wasn't time to look around!