21 replies to this topic

[skierdude9450]

I was at Aspen yesterday and after the final day of skiing I boarded the gondola to ride down. Now we must remember that this gondola just got a new computer system and this was the first weekend of its use. At about the end of the contour (where the spacer is located) that section just stopped. I thought that maybe it was adjusting the spacing because I had seen some gondolas stop for a second and then launch the cabin. Well, I thought that until the next cabin ran into mine. And the next one. And then the cabin in front was already one tower out on the line. By the time the lift was stopped six or seven cars had run into each other at the top terminal. If one more car had come in, it would have been catastrophic since it would still be on the cable when it ran into the next cabin, and the lift would have had to be totally evacuated. As it was, lift maintenance reset the system, evacuated everyone in the top station, and manually pushed the cars around. So in the end what had happened? The frickin spacing clutch just stopped dead while the rest of the system was running at full speed. Evidently there are still some glitches to be worked out with the new computer system. (A patroller told me that only two people wrote the program that was being used.) In any case, I'm glad that I wasn't one cabin ahead and stuck on the line for 20 minutes.

Now some photos:

Cabins stacked up along the contour:


Lift maint. coming to evacuate in the station (sorry all you can really see are the shadows):


The cabin ahead of mine:


The unloading zone:


Cabins stacked up:


You can't quite see the grips, but on the last two cars back, the grip needles were overlapping


So the point of the story is even though cadence chains have their pitfalls, this wouldn't have happened if they stuck with the old technology.

This post has been edited by skierdude9450: 16 June 2008 - 09:16 AM

[skisox34]

That used to happen at the bottom of the K-1 when a tire was flat or a ski pole would get stuck in the grating. In that case though it is probably just a problem of it getting the bugs worked out!

[vons]

Was the Anti-collision system bypassed because even if the spacing cluch failled to engage the A-C system should have stopped the lift before carriers started to collide. I defer my opinion of Cadance chains to liftmech

[skierdude9450]

It must have been. There were a good 6 collisions before the lift was completely stopped. Now you can't stop a 13,000 foot lift on a dime, but it should have stopped at no later than the first collision. Maybe the computer system was so f d up that the A-C system failed at the same time.

[liftmech]

I wouldn't chalk that one up to the fact that they have tyres now instead of the old chain. I would imagine that there are bugs yet, or they had the a/c system bypassed. The Flyer's rather new tyre contour clutch stays open when power is cut, so the spacing section does indeed stop dead. Once we figured that one out, we quit having problems with it because we could anticipate it. However, even if the spacing section quit turning, the a/c system still caught it and stopped the lift before a collision occurred. Not knowing what was up with the Silver Queen the day you rode it, though, I can't speculate further.

[SuperRat]

I remember the first time we lost power for our fine spacing clutch on a '95 Doppelmayr UNI. The tires in the spacing zone stopped moving and the mechanics and lifties had to push chairs until all the skiers were off-loaded. Later the mechanics realized the clutch plates could be coupled with bolts for such emergencies.

[lift_electrical]

What is the "new" control system?

[lastchair_44]

I think they upgraded their drives and low voltage. Jeremiah could tell you more.

[Kicking Horse]

I wonder if the lift operators were not watching the lift???? what was the Top lift op's doing?

[skierdude9450]

Well there were tons of people loading skis in the racks, so the liftie could've been one of them.

[Jeremiah Frazier]

lastchair_44, on Jun 17 2008, 05:41 PM, said:

I think they upgraded their drives and low voltage. Jeremiah could tell you more.

Yes we upgraded the DC drives in 2004 and changed the spacing system from a chain to a tire contour and two sets of clutches in 2006, when the new cabins where added, then the controls where upgraded this summer.

There are obvious advantages and disadvantages to both spacing systems. If a chain breaks it can mean a long evacuation and possibly lots of downtime, plus they are expensive. If a tire goes flat it is cheaper and easier to replace; but the electronic control of the spacing system can be difficult, especially on such a long lift that has long terminals and the capacity is pushed to it's max. I've worked on this gondola a lot and the only time I've seen cabins stacked up like the pictures is the during the initial system setup and when they have problems with the tires.

[skisox34]

The spacing zones for the Poma gondola's I worked (Skyeship and K-1) did not have zones located in the turn-arounds. On the Skyeship there were 3 zones located on the accel and decel and the K-1 had 2 zones. I can remember at least 3 cabins being pattycaked like that and the the lift did not stop. One time I was helping the ticket checker and the op watching the lift was snoozing or something and didn't see it happen and I had to jump over two ropes and around a bunch of people to hit the stop button. I looked rather heroic!

[Ryan]

WOW those pictures are shocking. I have always been fascinated with this lift and to see it malfunction is disappointing. For some naive reason I imagined that it always operates flawlessly and that nothing could ever go wrong with the Silver Queen.

I found a short video clip I took in April 2007 of the top terminal unloading area for anyone interested. I can't remember why I took this but I think there were some problems occurring. The Pink Floyd was playing in the terminal - I didn't add it to the clip.

I am curious, if the Silver Queen ever had to be evacuated how would they evacuate the cabins stuck in the really high sections? The area that crosses the Copper Bowl has to be several hundred feet off the ground. I was on it back in February when the lift stopped while I was in this section. The (up/down) bounce that soon followed was incredible. It felt like it was +40 feet. We started below the downloading side then gently bounced up at least 20 feet above the downloading side and back down before stabilizing.

Attached File(s)

•  Silver_Queen_Unloading_Zone.avi (2.61MB)
  Number of downloads: 46

[barnstormer]

I don't know how the Poma system works but I have always thought that the Garaventa/CTEC spacing and anticollision systems of the 1990's was the best out there. At the non spacing terminal, there is turn-around anti collision to protect the contour. At the spacing end, there is some turn-around anti collision and also a fault for two chairs in the spacing zone. This prevents such pile ups. That said, if there was an anti-collision or spacing fault just before your pile up, and someone reset it without watching the cabins on start up, on the CTEC A/C system, it is bypassed until the next carrier comes in and starts the system again. Operators are often so spoiled by an "automatic anti collision system", they don't know what to do when it stops working.

[skierdude9450]

I was wondering that about evacuation also. I estimate tower 17 at over 200 feet high and the span between 16 and 17 maybe even 300. (Just to give you an idea, the shadows on the ground are just dots.) It's quite scary when it's really windy. In Europe I think that it would be required to have an evac ropeway, which when you're 300 feet off the ground that makes a lot more sense than rope belaying. I imagine that they evacuate the gondola much like any other lift. However instead of belaying someone from 25 feet off the ground it's more like 10 times that number.

[Lift Kid]

skierdude9450, on Jun 23 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

I was wondering that about evacuation also. I estimate tower 17 at over 200 feet high and the span between 16 and 17 maybe even 300. (Just to give you an idea, the shadows on the ground are just dots.) It's quite scary when it's really windy. In Europe I think that it would be required to have an evac ropeway, which when you're 300 feet off the ground that makes a lot more sense than rope belaying. I imagine that they evacuate the gondola much like any other lift. However instead of belaying someone from 25 feet off the ground it's more like 10 times that number.

I believe that gondola evacs frequently involve the use of a lightweight basket to lower people to the ground from high places versus the rope belay method.

[skisox34]

My guess is they would have had to demonstrate that evac at least once to prove that it could be done before the lift opened.

[skierdude9450]

Lift Kid, on Jun 24 2008, 10:38 PM, said:

I believe that gondola evacs frequently involve the use of a lightweight basket to lower people to the ground from high places versus the rope belay method.

Yeah that makes sense. I'm still surprised that they didn't build an evac ropeway back then. Although, I haven't seen an evac ropeway anywhere other than Austria and Switzerland and Poma only installed a handfull of lifts in those countries.

[Peter]

Doesn't The Flight of the Canyons Gondola have some sort of evacuation system for the tall part?

[Outback]

Skier, on Jun 25 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

Doesn't The Flight of the Canyons Gondola have some sort of evacuation system for the tall part?

Its parked on the tower before the span.
French belt sander thing.