19 replies to this topic

[werner]

What exactly is going on here? I see that there is a large turn, but it looks there is also a cross of two liftlines. Anyone have an overhead pic?

Attached File(s)

•  turn4.jpg (63.26K)
  Number of downloads: 99
•  turn5.jpg (65.83K)
  Number of downloads: 71

[floridaskier]

The uphill side of the line makes the turn at the bottom left of the first picture you posted, simply turning around horizontal sheaves. The downhill line, since the tension of the haul rope would pull it away from horizontal sheaves similar to the heavy side, needs to turn right in order to turn left. The downhill line crosses over the uphill side's turn, and then turns around one bullwheel to the right, and then around another bullwheel, which is shown in the foreground of the first picture, to complete the angle change. The downhill line has to be high up to get out of the way of the uphill side. It's a very complicated solution. Why didn't they just build the lift straight to begin with? I'm guessing there's no downloading on this lift.

[skierdude9450]

No downloading. I think the only reason that the lift has the turn is because it has a mid station for people to return to peak 8. The original plan was probably to build two lifts: one going from the Grand Timber Lodge onto the mountain, and the other from where the current mid station is to peak 8, and Poma just said that they could make one lift to satisfy the two lifts by adding a mid station and a turn.

[floridaskier]

Is the Snowflake still used much now that they have the Superconnect?

[poloxskier]

skierdude9450, on Mar 30 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

No downloading. I think the only reason that the lift has the turn is because it has a mid station for people to return to peak 8. The original plan was probably to build two lifts: one going from the Grand Timber Lodge onto the mountain, and the other from where the current mid station is to peak 8, and Poma just said that they could make one lift to satisfy the two lifts by adding a mid station and a turn.

The Snowflake lift is another classic example of a real estate access lift. It was built as the neighborhood was being expanded to include the homes that are now along the snowflake trail and some of the considerations were making them ski in/ ski out, and inadequate bus access at the time to peak 8. The main reason to direct skiers to peak 8 was mostly driven by peak 9 at the time being over saturated while peak 8 was not nearly as busy. The original proposed configuration was the same as the existing one and Snowflake was constructed before the Grand Timber Lodge. The main reason for the turn is that if the lift was constructed in a straight line it would pass over existing structures, as well as lots that are available for private homes. Also remember that at the time that Snowflake was built the only other access to return to peak 8 from peak 9 was chair 4 which was not only low capacity but its access was only advanced terrain or a narrow catwalk, hence the reason for the mid-station.

floridaskier, on Mar 31 2008, 02:54 AM, said:

Is the Snowflake still used much now that they have the Superconnect?

Not nearly as much for daytime transfers between peaks unless someone wants to just reach the peak 8 base, but it is still important for morning access to the mountain.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 31 March 2008 - 05:19 AM

[Lift Kid]

If this is still unclear, I will happily draw a diagram of that turn.

[liftmech]

Overhead view of the snowflake angle station.

Attached File(s)

•  Snowflake_angle_station.JPG (18.42K)
  Number of downloads: 80

[Lift Kid]

liftmech, on Mar 31 2008, 05:06 PM, said:

Overhead view of the snowflake angle station.

Well, that about sums it up!

This pictures lets you see basically how it looks, but a little larger!

[werner]

Seems to me to be a bit over-complicated...thanks for the explanation! So would it have been impossible to keep a parallel lift line with a turn it?

[Outback]

werner, on Mar 31 2008, 09:20 PM, said:

Seems to me to be a bit over-complicated...thanks for the explanation! So would it have been impossible to keep a parallel lift line with a turn it?

.......kinda hard to turn the lift to the outside of the rope with the grip sticking out on that side hence the two bw's.

[LiftTech]

So where is the mid-station? I can find the turn and upper line with google satellite but I cannot find the mid-station, any clues?

[SkiBachelor]

That's because the mid station is pretty well hidden in the trees, but it's located below the turn.

[skiracer]

That mess sure did take some designing though.

This post has been edited by skiracer: 01 April 2008 - 07:30 AM

[skierdude9450]

Outback, on Apr 1 2008, 06:02 AM, said:

.......kinda hard to turn the lift to the outside of the rope with the grip sticking out on that side hence the two bw's.

There actually have been line turns where they cut a notch in the bullwheel for the grip, enabling a turn on the inside of the line. I'll have pictures later.

[skierdude9450]

Here are some pictures of the dual bullwheel turn from remontees-mecaniques.net. The lift is by GMM (Gimar Montaz Mautino). But it looks like it later had a deropement.









Here's a full lift report about the quad in the Dubai Ski Dome that has a dual bullwheel turn. It is built by Poma and uses Skirail grips which are very similar to the Yan Type 3 grip: (submitted by rodo_af and also it's in French)

http://www.remontees...ortage-738.html

A picture of a more compact version of Snowflake's turn:


(pictures credit to chin@ill)

For those who were wondering here's the view of Snowflake's midstation and turn from Google Earth:

 Snowflake.jpg (122.89K)
Number of downloads: 47

Hmm..... Maybe we could merge this topic with the "Turning" topic in the technical section.

This post has been edited by skierdude9450: 01 April 2008 - 03:25 PM

[Allan]

That bullwheel with the notch in it doesn't make sense to me... the carrier spacing would have to be perfect with no grip migration... Last time I checked the carriers don't land on the same place on the bullwheel every time!

[skierdude9450]

Yeah I know. If there was any grip slippage, things could be worse. Although, a deropement is pretty bad....

[Allan]

skierdude9450, on Apr 2 2008, 02:09 PM, said:

Yeah I know. If there was any grip slippage, things could be worse. Although, a deropement is pretty bad....

I would think a grip coming into the wrong spot would cause a deropement...

[vons]

Looking at the pictures from Dubai, the notched bull wheel has rollers vs. a rubber liner; it also has a motor above it. I am guessing that a group of proximity switches checks the chair position and accelerates or decelerates the bull wheel to place the notch in the right place the rollers used as a liner allows this ability.

[skiersage]

skierdude9450, on Apr 1 2008, 06:24 PM, said:

I finally noticed how the GMM turn works. If you look closely at the first picture there is a mechanism that keeps the bullwheel held in the ready to catch a chair position. It looks like when the grip passes the entry sheave, the bullwheel is released making sure the chair hits the groove every time. That is an ingenious design.