45 replies to this topic

[Bill]

Well I thought I had things figured out this year... Nope!
For the first time in my 40 years being in this country and on this planet,
they are gonne get some more of my greenbacks...

in the amount of $951 FREAKIN DOLLARS!!!!

This blows....

[Peter]

My parents got an overpayment refund notice last week along with another envelope saying they owed more, both on the same day last week. (The one saying they owed more was, of course, a much larger amount!)

This post has been edited by Skier: 18 January 2008 - 07:55 PM

[SkiBachelor]

The IRS is so messed up in this country. We just got a check for $10,000 and then a bill saying we owe $6,000.

I don't understand why they can't just take the difference and report this in the check/bill they send us. It just wastes time and money.

[liftmech]

The IRS is bureaucracy at its worst. Its sole purpose is to collect taxes and ensure that everyone pays their share. Unfortunately, thanks to years of congressional pork and favours, the tax code is so impssibly complicated that it would be easier to scrap it and start fresh. With all the different permutations they have to keep track of, I'm not at all surprised at anything that happens in the IRS offices.

[Callao]

What! I thought you guys were all democrats and believed in paying higher taxes for the purpose of creating a stronger socialist society.

[chasl]

Callao, on Jan 19 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

What! I thought you guys were all democrats and believed in paying higher taxes for the purpose of creating a stronger socialist society.

Not I, but this does not matter Dem or Rep the IRS is its own little monster. until we get some people in the Government that is willing to create a flat tax or a federal sales tax the IRS will continue to grow.

[Peter]

Just because I think the IRS is very poorly organized does not mean I don't believe in taxes! Not to start a political argument, but Mike Huckabee's "fair tax" is an incredibly stupid idea.

[Callao]

Skier, on Jan 19 2008, 11:57 AM, said:

Just because I think the IRS is very poorly organized does not mean I don't believe in taxes! Not to start a political argument, but Mike Huckabee's "fair tax" is an incredibly stupid idea.

I'm not familiar with Huckabee or FairTax. Maybe you could please give us all a description of FairTax and why it is an incredibly stupid idea. Also, don't be afraid to tell us why it's a good idea too.

[Peter]

It is a 23% federal sales tax on everything in addition to local sales tax. The problem is that people living below the poverty line still pay 23% and it applies to food. With a 30%+ sales tax rate I think there would be a black market.

I believe in taxes that pay for important government programs, such as public schools, parks, roads, etc. I hate taxes for things like sports stadiums. Is that socialism? I think not.

[Callao]

Skier, on Jan 19 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

It is a 23% federal sales tax on everything in addition to local sales tax. The problem is that people living below the poverty line still pay 23% and it applies to food. With a 30%+ sales tax rate I think there would be a black market.

I believe in taxes that pay for important government programs, such as public schools, parks, roads, etc. I hate taxes for things like sports stadiums. Is that socialism? I think not.

Perfect socialism is when you pay 100% and everything is redistributed. FairTax actually involves a sort of rebate; I don't know if you knew that already.

There are two main questions when it comes to taxation: what activity to tax, and how much to tax it.

What activity to tax: all right, the fed taxes just about everything. But the main activities for taxing is working, and spending. Taxing a certain activity acts as a disincentive, whether people think about it or not. Do we want to add a disincentive to spending, or labor?

How much to tax: It makes sense that a government should look at the amount of money needed for all its projects and programs, and then chooses to tax that amount. However, because of the disincentives involved, raising taxes has a negative result on labor and production (or spending, whichever you are taxing), and lowering taxes results in spurred economic growth. The trick is to decide where to set that amount, and many economists believe that lowering taxes may actually increase internal revenue, although, not likely in the immediate year. Look at Hong Kong--they settled for a 15% flat tax. Look at that economy!

[skiersage]

While we are on the subject of taxes:
http://industryreport.mountainnews.com/200...terr.shtml#more
Kinda off topic since it is not necessarily related to the IRS, but it is related to the ski industry.

[Callao]

Here is a follow-up article:

Published November 8, 2007
[ From Lansing State Journal ]
Michigan Senate votes to repeal new service tax
House could vote on replacement as early as today

David Eggert
Associated Press

As expected, the Michigan Senate voted 23-15 Wednesday to repeal a much-maligned tax on services such as business consulting, tanning and graphic design before it takes effect Dec. 1.

The full House could follow up as early as today with a plan replacing the $614 million the tax would generate this fiscal year.

The linchpin to successfully killing the service tax is making up for the revenue that Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm has designated for K-12 public schools and other government services.
Advertisement

House Tax Policy Chairman Steven Bieda, D-Warren, hopes his committee can vote Thursday on legislation repealing the tax and replacing the revenue. The panel has been mulling whether to add a surcharge to the new state business tax to make up the difference, with no business paying more than $2 million extra.

Twenty-one Republicans who control the Senate and two Democrats supported the repeal as a step forward. But most Democrats said they couldn't back the bill unless the revenue is replaced. Granholm has taken the same position.

Businesses say the tax is confusing, would make Michigan a less attractive place to do business and is unfair because it taxes some services but not others.

"There is broad consensus and broad agreement in a bipartisan fashion to repeal the service tax," said Senate Finance Chairwoman Nancy Cassis, R-Novi.

Senate Majority Leader Mike Bishop, R-Rochester, said the Senate could wait no longer.

"We now have momentum going forward so that we can all come together for a solution," he said.

The expanded service tax was approved Oct. 1 to end a partial government shutdown.

Lansing State Journal

[Callao]

Here again is the big question: how much should be taxed? The republicans here want to repeal the tax, and the democrats are saying they need to tax something, if not this. Michigan is in a tight spot. Applying a new tax would be an easy, quick fix--but would likely mutilate the state's struggling economy in coming years (because, as stated in the first article, "This may push some out of the business," and "This is a horrible state to be doing business in right now"). Repealing this tax would be an expensive investment, but it would actually help pull Michigan out of its lousy economic problems.

There is a difference between democrats and republicans when it comes to tax reform, in a general sense. Democrats understand that they need to levy taxes. Republicans understand that people need an incentive to start businesses in a capitalistic market. That is where the idea of Reaganomics comes in:
1. Reduce the growth of government spending
2. Reduce marginal tax rates on income from labor and capital
3. Reduce regulation
4. Control the money supply to reduce inflation

[zeedotcom]

I think that with the tax in Michigan, skiing was the only "sport" that was taxed. From understanding it was a very specific list of things to tax and things not to tax. Landscaping got taxed but mowing a lawn didn't have to pay tax, etc.

In a way, taxing skiing does make sense in this situation. The idea is to generate additional revenue without affecting revenues elsewhere. Basically the state wants to make more tax dollars, but wants to make sure that all the existing money in the state, stays in the state. With skiing being such a big business, and being tourism based, it means that many people come from outside the state. This is essentially a way of keeping more of Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio's money.

The downfall is that it makes all the ski areas raise prices either directly (to make tax inclusive) or indirectly (because taxes are "added" to the bill). I'm not a golfer, so I don't know how it works for people who are. Do you generally travel out of state on "weekend" golf trip? Golf wasn't taxed. Is that because it doesn't apply to this model or because the lawmakers like to go golfing?

This is, essentially, a single state specific example of the same issues that everyone has with the IRS. It is almost a "reverse" of pork barrel spending and creates many of the same issues that the nuances of tax law do. "The Rich get Richer."

[Callao]

People have no consideration for the rich--which is understandable since I'm really jealous of them and want a mink fur coat too. But on the other hand, it's too bad that we feel this way. Because it is the rich who hire the rest of us. If you think we can so easily steal from the rich to give to the poor or whatever, consider the fact that if the rich are made poor, the poor would be unemployed. Choose your poison wisely, and be careful not to slam the givers of society. They worked hard to be where they are.

But for the few who don't work hard, or have no ambition, I found a humorous article for you:
__________________________________

AMERICANS WITH NO ABILITIES ACT
CONGRESSIONAL ACT 2006

WASHINGTON, DC (AP) – Congress is considering sweeping legislation, which provides new benefits for many Americans. The Americans With No Abilities Act (AWNAA) is being hailed as a major legislation by advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition.

“Roughly 50 percent of Americans do not possess the competence and drive necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society,” said Barbara Boxer. “We can no longer stand by and allow People of Inability to be ridiculed and passed over. With this legislation, employers will no longer be able to grant special favors to a small group of workers, simply because they do a better job, or have some idea of what they are doing.”

The President pointed to the success of the US Postal Service, which has a long-standing policy of providing opportunity without regard to performance. Approximately 74 percent of postal employees lack job skills, making this agency the single largest US employer of Persons of Inability.

Private sector industries with good records of nondiscrimination against the Inept include retail sales (72%), the airline industry (68%), and home improvement “warehouse” stores (65%). The DMV also has a great record of hiring Persons of Inability (63%).

Under the Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million “middle man” positions will be created, with important-sounding titles but little real responsibility, thus providing an illusory sense of purpose and performance.

Mandatory non-performance-based raises and promotions will be given, to guarantee upward mobility for even the most unremarkable employees. The legislation provides substantial tax breaks to corporations which maintain a significant level of Persons of Inability in middle positions, and gives a tax credit to small and medium businesses that agree to hire one clueless worker for every two talented hires.

Finally, the AWNA ACT contains tough new measures to make it more difficult to discriminate against the Nonabled, banning discriminatory interview questions such as “Do you have any goals for the future?” or “Do you have any skills or experience which relate to this job?”

“As a Nonabled person, I can’t be expected to keep up with people who have something going for them,” said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as a lug-nut twister at the GM plant in Flint, MI due to her lack of notable job skills. “This new law should really help people like me.” With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other untalented citizens can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Said Senator Ted Kennedy, “It is our duty as lawmakers to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her adequacy, with some sort of space to take up in this great nation and also find a place for all illegal aliens no matter how useless they may be.”
______________________________

Now that, is socialism.
Source: www. snopes.com

[Peter]

You forgot the TSA, which is 100% comprised of people with no ability.

[Emax]

Callao, on Jan 20 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

People have no consideration for the rich--which is understandable since I'm really jealous of them and want a mink fur coat too. But on the other hand, it's too bad that we feel this way. Because it is the rich who hire the rest of us. If you think we can so easily steal from the rich to give to the poor or whatever, consider the fact that if the rich are made poor, the poor would be unemployed. Choose your poison wisely, and be careful not to slam the givers of society. They worked hard to be where they are.

But for the few who don't work hard, or have no ambition, I found a humorous article for you:
__________________________________

AMERICANS WITH NO ABILITIES ACT
CONGRESSIONAL ACT 2006

WASHINGTON, DC (AP) – Congress is considering sweeping legislation, which provides new benefits for many Americans. The Americans With No Abilities Act (AWNAA) is being hailed as a major legislation by advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition.

"Roughly 50 percent of Americans do not possess the competence and drive necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society," said Barbara Boxer. "We can no longer stand by and allow People of Inability to be ridiculed and passed over. With this legislation, employers will no longer be able to grant special favors to a small group of workers, simply because they do a better job, or have some idea of what they are doing."

The President pointed to the success of the US Postal Service, which has a long-standing policy of providing opportunity without regard to performance. Approximately 74 percent of postal employees lack job skills, making this agency the single largest US employer of Persons of Inability.

Private sector industries with good records of nondiscrimination against the Inept include retail sales (72%), the airline industry (68%), and home improvement "warehouse" stores (65%). The DMV also has a great record of hiring Persons of Inability (63%).

Under the Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million "middle man" positions will be created, with important-sounding titles but little real responsibility, thus providing an illusory sense of purpose and performance.

Mandatory non-performance-based raises and promotions will be given, to guarantee upward mobility for even the most unremarkable employees. The legislation provides substantial tax breaks to corporations which maintain a significant level of Persons of Inability in middle positions, and gives a tax credit to small and medium businesses that agree to hire one clueless worker for every two talented hires.

Finally, the AWNA ACT contains tough new measures to make it more difficult to discriminate against the Nonabled, banning discriminatory interview questions such as "Do you have any goals for the future?" or "Do you have any skills or experience which relate to this job?"

"As a Nonabled person, I can't be expected to keep up with people who have something going for them," said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as a lug-nut twister at the GM plant in Flint, MI due to her lack of notable job skills. "This new law should really help people like me." With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other untalented citizens can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Said Senator Ted Kennedy, "It is our duty as lawmakers to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her adequacy, with some sort of space to take up in this great nation and also find a place for all illegal aliens no matter how useless they may be."
______________________________

Now that, is socialism.
Source: www. snopes.com

I love this - especially your preamble. Sound thinking, nice find.

This post has been edited by Emax: 21 January 2008 - 07:27 AM

[skiersage]

Callao, on Jan 20 2008, 01:57 PM, said:

Now that, is socialism.

No, I think that is a direct jump toward communism. Think about it. Communism is a form of government where the government assigns jobs to all citizens.......

[Callao]

skiersage, on Jan 21 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

No, I think that is a direct jump toward communism. Think about it. Communism is a form of government where the government assigns jobs to all citizens.......

True, true. Also, I just need to point out something that wasn't made clear the first time this article was shown to me--it's a fraud, but it's hilarious.

[tram mechanic]

so you all enjoy the corporate-structured neo-facism of the present day US? You cry as if we are spiraling towards some socialist pit when in reality we couldn't be further from the fact. Huge differences in incomes between working people and the CEO's and lay-offs of skilled trades people while the leaders are walking away with golden parachutes worth billions and you blame socialism? Have some more kool-aid!