67 replies to this topic

[Superchairliftfan]

Kicking Horse, on Jan 17 2008, 08:47 PM, said:

You can dream.... Maybe this thing would be safe if it had OTSR and was made by Vekoma.....


ROFL

Vekoma?

[Superchairliftfan]

chasl, on Jan 17 2008, 08:43 PM, said:

Just a couple of notes, on the Doppelmayr Cable car systems, the drives and returns basically look the same as some of the bigger lift systems (with 4meter wheels), and we have systems running at 12 meters per second and the bullwheel liner does not fly out (average system has 4 bullwheels).
Bearings are all monitored with SPM (shock point measuring) to chart the history of a bearing (all major components, Motors, gearbox's, bullwheels) so you can plan maintenance or replace bearings BEFORE failure.

All of the other problems mentioned are just engineering problems and navigation problems, all probably easy to overcome with longer terminals (to solve the deceleration curve problem) and big boats (for evac), although there are other ways of evacuating a lift. It all comes down to the question WHY? What you are talking about in my mind will be cost prohibitive, there are easier ways to solve your problem. But to answer your original question, Possibley, and could you get an engineer to take up the problem? absolutly, but again why? I am not sure that the Prince here in Qatar has that much money to waste.

Umm... do you really want most of the chairlifts at the resort to take half an hour and only get 1000m of vertical? No, I didn't think so. Even at 10 m/s, this lift would be amazingly slow (15 minutes).

This post has been edited by Superchairliftfan: 18 January 2008 - 06:22 AM

[Lift Dinosaur]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 18 2008, 07:21 AM, said:

Umm... do you really want most of the chairlifts at the resort to take half an hour and only get 1000m of vertical? No, I didn't think so. Even at 10 m/s, this lift would be amazingly slow (15 minutes).

You're starting to complicate the issue by now making this a ski resort with 1000M of vertical. Maybe you should take this over to "Fantasy Trail Maps".

Vekoma?
Roller coaster company


Dino

[Superchairliftfan]

Well, anyway, I just need tips on making a 10 m/s chairlift safe.

[aug]

aug, on Jan 17 2008, 12:35 PM, said:

10 meters per second!!! I think at this speed something more than rope monitoring would be needed. In the event of a bearing failure on a sheave or a liner blowing out things will happen fast and furiously. The centrifugal force on the bw would need to be taken account for so the Bw liner did not fly out of the BW. The grips would have to be re designed for the impact forces that would be generated as these kind of speeds . every time the grip enters a terminal the detatch roller impacts the detatch rail . Im sure that at twice the speed the grip would need to be designed for that kind of impact. let alone maybe the need for seat belts. You have mentioned the speeds of loading a fixed grip lift, if you have ever tried loading( as an operator) a quad fixed grip chair at 450 fpm you know that it is quite difficult and requires two people to bump the chair to afford the guest a comfortable load . some ski areas use a conveyor carpet at the load area to alieviate some of the loading woes at the load board on lifts with heavy carriers.

when we are having issues with our rope monitoring and have to run a detatch at 600 fpm i can not believe the complaints from the guests that the chair is running soooo sloooww. what is the hurry . is there some kind of race going on that i am not aware of??? I am just glad that I have an effortless ride up the hill. faster ,bigger , is not always what it is cracked up to be. (Supersize it It has got to be better)
OH I just thought of another issue with this lift that travels over water for quite a distance. remember you must have a viable Evacuation plan. sounds like you would need a fleet of boats for the evac plan. and each boat would have to have precise station keeping abilitys in all weather conditions to perform the rescues from the water. depending on the capacity of this lift and the stated length ( over 7000 meters!!!) a fully loaded lift having to be evacuated sounds like orwellian night mare

My bad ,Some where on this forum I had read about a fantasy lift going over water. still an evac on this length of lift would take tremendous amount of manpower, time and logistics.

[Callao]

Superchairlift, you realize you may be calling for re-engineering of a people-mover (we can only assume that is what you would need a gondola for). You ask us if this would be feasible, however, you never stated what your problem or purpose is. Remember? Defining the problem is half the solution.

You could perhaps very well solve your problem with another mode of transporting. But I'm pretty sure you have considered other alternatives and you still want to use a gondola for the project. As the technology of gondolas currently stands, you will find them inadequate.

But this is important: there is nothing wrong with re-engineering anything. Society has found many times in the past, that current technology was not good enough. Take for instance, the the airplane propeller. It was developed in the early 20th century, until its performance peaked and development plateaued at an absolute max of 500 mph. Scrapping old ideas of outboard propeller engines, engineers "re-engineered" by developing the first turbine engines in the 1930's. Take a step further by developing the axial-flow turbojet aircraft engine developed for the Avro Vulcan V Bomber (and later for Concorde in 1969), we were able to build aircrafts that were capable of flying over 1,300 mph, something that was impossible for an old prop engine.

Consider also the fact that a detachable lift is a re-engineering of a fixed grip. I don't want to hear anybody in this forum say they're satisfied with status quo, especially when there are some in here with enough passion and smarts to make it happen! There are some in this world, some of those old people, who are satisfied with prop airplanes, rope tows, and the horse-drawn carriage, because what's worked for them, is good enough for them. Don't listen to them as they try to tear down your new ideas. If you've got the ability, you re-engineer this thing. Can we get new ideas? That is why God keeps on making new people.

[lastchair_44]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 18 2008, 07:21 AM, said:

Umm... do you really want most of the chairlifts at the resort to take half an hour and only get 1000m of vertical? No, I didn't think so. Even at 10 m/s, this lift would be amazingly slow (15 minutes).

Exactly, so build yourself a tram or 3S gondola. What are you going to do when it's a really windy day and you can't run your lift because you have bubbles on the carriers? Aerial trams and the 3S gondi's can run in high winds at reduced speed and most importantly, your guests are out of the weather. Also, I would hate to ride this lift at 10m/s with or without bubbles...that would be cold! Especially if it was snowing!

[Lift Kid]

Well, I guess from my standpoint as a skier, I would have to say that a 10m/s detachable chairlift with or without bubbles would be extraordinarily cold and uncomfortable to ride. From the technical standpoint, with the technology currently in use on detachable lifts, the terminals would be excessively long in order to safely decelerate the carriers.

[Superchairliftfan]

Callao, on Jan 18 2008, 09:59 AM, said:

Superchairlift, you realize you may be calling for re-engineering of a people-mover (we can only assume that is what you would need a gondola for). You ask us if this would be feasible, however, you never stated what your problem or purpose is. Remember? Defining the problem is half the solution.

You could perhaps very well solve your problem with another mode of transporting. But I'm pretty sure you have considered other alternatives and you still want to use a gondola for the project. As the technology of gondolas currently stands, you will find them inadequate.

But this is important: there is nothing wrong with re-engineering anything. Society has found many times in the past, that current technology was not good enough. Take for instance, the the airplane propeller. It was developed in the early 20th century, until its performance peaked and development plateaued at an absolute max of 500 mph. Scrapping old ideas of outboard propeller engines, engineers "re-engineered" by developing the first turbine engines in the 1930's. Take a step further by developing the axial-flow turbojet aircraft engine developed for the Avro Vulcan V Bomber (and later for Concorde in 1969), we were able to build aircrafts that were capable of flying over 1,300 mph, something that was impossible for an old prop engine.

Consider also the fact that a detachable lift is a re-engineering of a fixed grip. I don't want to hear anybody in this forum say they're satisfied with status quo, especially when there are some in here with enough passion and smarts to make it happen! There are some in this world, some of those old people, who are satisfied with prop airplanes, rope tows, and the horse-drawn carriage, because what's worked for them, is good enough for them. Don't listen to them as they try to tear down your new ideas. If you've got the ability, you re-engineer this thing. Can we get new ideas? That is why God keeps on making new people.

Thanks for agreeing with me. A 10 m/s lift would be possible, you'd just need to know how. Sadly, I don't, because I'm barely in highschool. Does anyone here know?

This post has been edited by Superchairliftfan: 18 January 2008 - 03:21 PM

[Superchairliftfan]

Here's the problem: 50 gondolas at a resort aren't economical. The cabins themselves cost $35000, and the machinery isn't much cheaper. 30-minute long chairlifts aren't great either. 10 m/s would be a great speed for my application. However, I can imagine the chairs using breakovers like skateboard jumps, and the entry in to the terminal would be at best haphazard.

[Peter]

And what exactly is your "application?"

[Superchairliftfan]

Skier, on Jan 18 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

And what exactly is your "application?"

~7000m cable length, ~1500m vertical (at most), 4-CLD/B.

[Peter]

Right, but where and for what purpose?

[aug]

Monorail!!!!

[Lift Dinosaur]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 18 2008, 04:24 PM, said:

Here's the problem: 50 gondolas at a resort aren't economical. The cabins themselves cost $35000, and the machinery isn't much cheaper. 30-minute long chairlifts aren't great either. 10 m/s would be a great speed for my application. However, I can imagine the chairs using breakovers like skateboard jumps, and the entry in to the terminal would be at best haphazard.

~7000m cable length, ~1500m vertical (at most), 4-CLD/B

I'm a bit confused by your "application". You talk about "50 gondolas" - are you talking 50 systems or 50 cabins?
Then you talk about a single system 7000m L x 1500m V and needing it to be a chairlift. Is this single system lift going to be used for transportation to a ski area, or do you plan to have people skiing 1500m V all day long?
I think this is the issue that keep bringing me back to the questions of 1)Why can't it be a 2or3S? 2) Why can't it be a Tram? 3) Why does it have to be a chairlift?

Dino

[Superchairliftfan]

Lift Dinosaur, on Jan 19 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

~7000m cable length, ~1500m vertical (at most), 4-CLD/B

I'm a bit confused by your "application". You talk about "50 gondolas" - are you talking 50 systems or 50 cabins?
Then you talk about a single system 7000m L x 1500m V and needing it to be a chairlift. Is this single system lift going to be used for transportation to a ski area, or do you plan to have people skiing 1500m V all day long?
I think this is the issue that keep bringing me back to the questions of 1)Why can't it be a 2or3S? 2) Why can't it be a Tram? 3) Why does it have to be a chairlift?

Dino

At a ~50 lift ski resort with 19500 hectares of terrain.

[Peter]

WHERE?

[Superchairliftfan]

Skier, on Jan 20 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

WHERE?

Near Whistler-Blackcomb. It'll rock :)

[Lift Dinosaur]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 20 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

At a ~50 lift ski resort with 19500 hectares of terrain.

OK, now can you please answer my 3 questions? And what is the need for a 7000m single system?

Dino

[Lift Kid]

Along with Dino's question, I'm wondering why you need so many lifts, and so much area?