67 replies to this topic

[Superchairliftfan]

Would a detatchable chairlift capable of 10 m/s be safe, and if not, how would you make it safe?

[Superchairliftfan]

Please help. Here are some specs:
10 m/s
7,328 metres each direction
Grip: Detatchable, Twin mobile jaw
4-seater with bubbles

[lastchair_44]

Why the hell would you want a chairlift to go that fast?? Put in an aerial tram or 3S gondola.

[shoemaniii]

no, it will not be safe.
-- somewhere along the 24,000ft lift there will be wind issues and because your manager is in his office he'll push the speed. why risk anything to gain 8min of ride time?
bobp

[Callao]

Wow. 1,970 fpm? Is there some kind of ansi code for that?

[lastchair_44]

Not as far as line speed goes. At least I couldn't find anything browsing through the book.

3.1.1.2 Capacity and speed
The designer shall specify the maximum and minimum design
capacities and carrier spacing in each direction and the design
loading conditions under which the aerial lift may be operated.
The maximum rope speed shall be that specified by the designer
and established as functional by testing and operational performance.

Maximum relative carrier loading speed for detachable chair lifts.
1-4 passenger chair | 6 passenger chair | 8 passenger chair
Skiers - 450fpm(2.3 m/s) | 425fpm(2.2 m/s) | 400fpm (2.0 m/s)
Foot passengers 250fpm(1.3 m/s) | 225fpm(1.1 m/s) | 200fpm (1.0 m/s)

Also, on lifts that travel over 600 fpm, RPD's must be installed to monitor the position of the rope.

[Lift Kid]

Seems a little bit on the fast side, considering most detachable chairlifts run between 1000 fpm and 1100 fpm. I am just wondering, why would this lift need to run at such a speed?

[Superchairliftfan]

There would be 60% as many carriers so the loading speeds could safely meet regulations. This lift would be extremely long, and you can't have 50 3s lifts at a resort without looking crazy, so THAT's why I need 10 m/s.

[mikest2]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 16 2008, 08:21 PM, said:

There would be 60% as many carriers so the loading speeds could safely meet regulations. This lift would be extremely long, and you can't have 50 3s lifts at a resort without looking crazy, so THAT's why I need 10 m/s.

And what would your deceleration curve look like ?

[Snoqualmie guy]

I hope the station was long so I wouldn't get a whiplash starting and stopping!

[Peter]

So a 1-4 person chairlift is only supposed to go a max of 450 fpm? How did Crystal get away with designing Northway for 550 fpm then?

Edit: Nevermind, I see that is for detachable chairlifts only. What are the max speeds for fixed grips?

This post has been edited by Skier: 16 January 2008 - 09:12 PM

[Superchairliftfan]

Snoqualmie guy, on Jan 16 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

I hope the station was long so I wouldn't get a whiplash starting and stopping!

The chair will be tipped back a bit for loading, and the acceleration pattern will be tuned to prevent whiplash.

[poloxskier]

Skier, on Jan 16 2008, 08:11 PM, said:

So a 1-4 person chairlift is only supposed to go a max of 450 fpm? How did Crystal get away with designing Northway for 550 fpm then?

Edit: Nevermind, I see that is for detachable chairlifts only. What are the max speeds for fixed grips?

FG lift ANSI standards rope speeds are:
Single: 600fpm
Double: 550fpm
Triple: 500fpm
Quad: 450fpm

[Superchairliftfan]

poloxskier, on Jan 16 2008, 11:38 PM, said:

FG lift ANSI standards rope speeds are:
Single: 600fpm
Double: 550fpm
Triple: 500fpm
Quad: 450fpm

M/s plz?

[NoPainNoJane]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 17 2008, 07:37 AM, said:

M/s plz?

metric conversion site: http://www.worldwide....com/metcal.htm

[aug]

10 meters per second!!! I think at this speed something more than rope monitoring would be needed. In the event of a bearing failure on a sheave or a liner blowing out things will happen fast and furiously. The centrifugal force on the bw would need to be taken account for so the Bw liner did not fly out of the BW. The grips would have to be re designed for the impact forces that would be generated as these kind of speeds . every time the grip enters a terminal the detatch roller impacts the detatch rail . Im sure that at twice the speed the grip would need to be designed for that kind of impact. let alone maybe the need for seat belts. You have mentioned the speeds of loading a fixed grip lift, if you have ever tried loading( as an operator) a quad fixed grip chair at 450 fpm you know that it is quite difficult and requires two people to bump the chair to afford the guest a comfortable load . some ski areas use a conveyor carpet at the load area to alieviate some of the loading woes at the load board on lifts with heavy carriers.

when we are having issues with our rope monitoring and have to run a detatch at 600 fpm i can not believe the complaints from the guests that the chair is running soooo sloooww. what is the hurry . is there some kind of race going on that i am not aware of??? I am just glad that I have an effortless ride up the hill. faster ,bigger , is not always what it is cracked up to be. (Supersize it It has got to be better)
OH I just thought of another issue with this lift that travels over water for quite a distance. remember you must have a viable Evacuation plan. sounds like you would need a fleet of boats for the evac plan. and each boat would have to have precise station keeping abilitys in all weather conditions to perform the rescues from the water. depending on the capacity of this lift and the stated length ( over 7000 meters!!!) a fully loaded lift having to be evacuated sounds like orwellian night mare

This post has been edited by aug: 17 January 2008 - 11:47 AM

[Superchairliftfan]

aug, on Jan 17 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

10 meters per second!!! I think at this speed something more than rope monitoring would be needed. In the event of a bearing failure on a sheave or a liner blowing out things will happen fast and furiously. The centrifugal force on the bw would need to be taken account for so the Bw liner did not fly out of the BW. The grips would have to be re designed for the impact forces that would be generated as these kind of speeds . every time the grip enters a terminal the detatch roller impacts the detatch rail . Im sure that at twice the speed the grip would need to be designed for that kind of impact. let alone maybe the need for seat belts. You have mentioned the speeds of loading a fixed grip lift, if you have ever tried loading( as an operator) a quad fixed grip chair at 450 fpm you know that it is quite difficult and requires two people to bump the chair to afford the guest a comfortable load . some ski areas use a conveyor carpet at the load area to alieviate some of the loading woes at the load board on lifts with heavy carriers.

when we are having issues with our rope monitoring and have to run a detatch at 600 fpm i can not believe the complaints from the guests that the chair is running soooo sloooww. what is the hurry . is there some kind of race going on that i am not aware of??? I am just glad that I have an effortless ride up the hill. faster ,bigger , is not always what it is cracked up to be. (Supersize it It has got to be better)
OH I just thought of another issue with this lift that travels over water for quite a distance. remember you must have a viable Evacuation plan. sounds like you would need a fleet of boats for the evac plan. and each boat would have to have precise station keeping abilitys in all weather conditions to perform the rescues from the water. depending on the capacity of this lift and the stated length ( over 7000 meters!!!) a fully loaded lift having to be evacuated sounds like orwellian night mare

Who said that this lift goes over water? Anyway, the loading speed would be the same as the average detatchable quad, give or take 15%.

[Superchairliftfan]

So, anyway...

[chasl]

aug, on Jan 17 2008, 02:35 PM, said:

10 meters per second!!! I think at this speed something more than rope monitoring would be needed. In the event of a bearing failure on a sheave or a liner blowing out things will happen fast and furiously. The centrifugal force on the bw would need to be taken account for so the Bw liner did not fly out of the BW. The grips would have to be re designed for the impact forces that would be generated as these kind of speeds . every time the grip enters a terminal the detatch roller impacts the detatch rail . Im sure that at twice the speed the grip would need to be designed for that kind of impact. let alone maybe the need for seat belts. You have mentioned the speeds of loading a fixed grip lift, if you have ever tried loading( as an operator) a quad fixed grip chair at 450 fpm you know that it is quite difficult and requires two people to bump the chair to afford the guest a comfortable load . some ski areas use a conveyor carpet at the load area to alieviate some of the loading woes at the load board on lifts with heavy carriers.

when we are having issues with our rope monitoring and have to run a detatch at 600 fpm i can not believe the complaints from the guests that the chair is running soooo sloooww. what is the hurry . is there some kind of race going on that i am not aware of??? I am just glad that I have an effortless ride up the hill. faster ,bigger , is not always what it is cracked up to be. (Supersize it It has got to be better)
OH I just thought of another issue with this lift that travels over water for quite a distance. remember you must have a viable Evacuation plan. sounds like you would need a fleet of boats for the evac plan. and each boat would have to have precise station keeping abilitys in all weather conditions to perform the rescues from the water. depending on the capacity of this lift and the stated length ( over 7000 meters!!!) a fully loaded lift having to be evacuated sounds like orwellian night mare

Just a couple of notes, on the Doppelmayr Cable car systems, the drives and returns basically look the same as some of the bigger lift systems (with 4meter wheels), and we have systems running at 12 meters per second and the bullwheel liner does not fly out (average system has 4 bullwheels).
Bearings are all monitored with SPM (shock point measuring) to chart the history of a bearing (all major components, Motors, gearbox's, bullwheels) so you can plan maintenance or replace bearings BEFORE failure.

All of the other problems mentioned are just engineering problems and navigation problems, all probably easy to overcome with longer terminals (to solve the deceleration curve problem) and big boats (for evac), although there are other ways of evacuating a lift. It all comes down to the question WHY? What you are talking about in my mind will be cost prohibitive, there are easier ways to solve your problem. But to answer your original question, Possibley, and could you get an engineer to take up the problem? absolutly, but again why? I am not sure that the Prince here in Qatar has that much money to waste.

This post has been edited by chasl: 17 January 2008 - 08:46 PM

[Kicking Horse]

Superchairliftfan, on Jan 17 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

So, anyway...

You can dream.... Maybe this thing would be safe if it had OTSR and was made by Vekoma.....


ROFL