9 replies to this topic

[tram mechanic]

I'm resurrecting the topic of labor unions. I'm a member of the Industrial Workers of the World, the "Wobblies". When I taught school I was an NEA (National Education Association) member. I know there are some folks out there with some strong feelings, both pro and con, regarding unions in the workplace. Throwing it out there to stir it up!

[Peter]

At school as a student it sucks having teachers' unions. If a teacher sucks at teaching, they can not be fired like in any other line of work. All the students can fail the AP test or state test and the teacher cannot be fired.

[tram mechanic]

Skier, on Nov 20 2007, 10:32 PM, said:

At school as a student it sucks having teachers' unions. If a teacher sucks at teaching, they can not be fired like in any other line of work. All the students can fail the AP test or state test and the teacher cannot be fired.

Sounds like you have a bit of an ax to grind, Skier! School districts continually are trying to fire "bad" teachers(define "bad") and with good administrators and proper documentation the process for termination is in place. The rural districts I worked in (in Colorado) had little union influence except in salary negotiations. Collective bargaining was something that districts fought against for a long time, because the technique of dividing the workers against each other in pay discussions works to their advantage.
Think about working on a lift that is old and that your area tends to neglect as far as upgrades, etc and you have lots of downtime with it. Obviously, the mechanics suck, right? For sure, teaching is not as cut and dry as tending to machines, and the criteria for measuring success is different, but support from outside the system is essential as is the buy-in from the participants, both students and teachers.
Jeff

[liftmech]

'We'll strike if you don't invest in the machinery!'
More like 'we'll quit'.
Which one would generate better results? Area managers are finally starting to realize lift mechanics and electricians don't grow on trees, but faced with this situation they'll probably still say 'alright- we'll just replace you'. Yes I'm a little bitter. But as (I believe) Emax once posted, unions leave a bad taste in my mouth. The concept is good, but more often than not, poor in execution.

[poloxskier]

liftmech, on Nov 23 2007, 05:49 PM, said:

'We'll strike if you don't invest in the machinery!'
More like 'we'll quit'.
Which one would generate better results? Area managers are finally starting to realize lift mechanics and electricians don't grow on trees, but faced with this situation they'll probably still say 'alright- we'll just replace you'. Yes I'm a little bitter. But as (I believe) Emax once posted, unions leave a bad taste in my mouth. The concept is good, but more often than not, poor in execution.

I have personaly not had any experience with unions but from what I have been told by friends who are either in unions or former members is that unions work much like Communisim or socialized medicine. They look good on paper but the execution does not always yield the original desired results.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 23 November 2007 - 07:03 PM

[Kicking Horse]

I would never work in a Union type deal.

[mikest2]

I have been a member of both the United Steelworkers and the Carpenters and Joiners. I paid my dues and kept my mouth shut. I have always believed that performance not seniority should dictate one's wage. I do not remember the union executive ever taking strike pay when the membership was walking the line.

just my two-bits worth

[tram mechanic]

for sure, the original idea of unionism is pretty much lost in the modern version we see today. The recent rollover of the UAW and it's concessions to the Big 3, especially it's two-tiered pay scale and pitting trades against one another is a different vision than when the AFL or the IWW formed over a hundred years ago. True unions are run by the ran-and-file, not professional administrators who never worked the shop floor. It's also interesting to note that the decline of union representation in the US correlates directly with the stagnation of wages and the increase in compensation to executives.

[Emax]

liftmech, on Nov 23 2007, 07:49 PM, said:

'We'll strike if you don't invest in the machinery!'
More like 'we'll quit'.
Which one would generate better results? Area managers are finally starting to realize lift mechanics and electricians don't grow on trees, but faced with this situation they'll probably still say 'alright- we'll just replace you'. Yes I'm a little bitter. But as (I believe) Emax once posted, unions leave a bad taste in my mouth. The concept is good, but more often than not, poor in execution.

Yeah - I said that (in "Lost Another One"). Despite comments since then, I still stand by it - for exactly the same reason that liftmech mentions.