46 replies to this topic

[defence2]

Earl bought Sun Valley in the 70's for 30 million, and now its worth 300 million. Anyone know beacause it is profitable or just because of inflation and the amount of money he put into it?

[SkiBachelor]

Are you curious why skier visits doubled in 2001 from the previous year?

My best guess would be marketing.

[skier14]

defence2, on May 16 2007, 03:16 PM, said:

Earl bought Sun Valley in the 70's for 30 million, and now its worth 300 million. Anyone know beacause it is profitable or just because of inflation and the amount of money he put into it?

Earl Built 7 hsq's and then retrofitted them all. He also installed one of, if not the biggest, automated sprinkler system in the world (it was the biggest at one point i'm not sure if its still the biggest snowmaking system). He also built big mountain lodges... and the list goes on. Im not sure if the net worth is based on profitability though.


SkiBachelor your right i meant 2001. I thought that maybe a lift went in during the summer 2000.

[skierdude9450]

Callao, on May 16 2007, 11:23 AM, said:

Snowbasin: 1,158,356

That's a little under what Breckenridge gets in a year.

[SkiBachelor]

Here's a list of the skier visits of ski resorts/areas located on USFS land in Utah and Idaho.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/recreation/winter_...ivisits2006.pdf

[JustJeepIt]

SVmech17, on May 16 2007, 12:36 PM, said:

Wonder what happened in 2000?

Prices went up :D

[SkiBachelor]

The law of demand states that as prices go down, sales go up so something else must have caused skier visits to increase. However, this rule does not apply to some goods like perfume.

I still think that there are other variables that we aren't accounting for.

[Callao]

Thanks SkiBachelor for the reference on skier visits.
You are also right about perfume and other premium goods. Law of price/demand can work backward.
One thing has changed about Snowbasin in recent years: there has been a lot of press on Snowbasin ever since, I think it was 2000, when the national forest land-swap was approved. Before that, it's true--even many Salt Lake people didn't know where that place was (and many would confuse it with Snowbird, like I did). Also, I think there have been a few press releases on it since then, such as an article in Ski Magazine (or Skiing?) this year that called it one of Utah's best-kept secrets. As a Snowbasin local told the reporter, "Tell your friends what a great time you had at Snowbird."

This post has been edited by Callao: 18 May 2007 - 10:21 PM

[Compuboks]

Has everyone forgot about the Olympics?

Snowbasin was the site of the Men's and Women's Downhill, Combined Downhill, and Super-G. All of the capital improvements were part of the Olympic lead up - New day lodges, new lifts, snowmaking, the land swap...

Skier visits most likely went up so drastically because families from around the world wanted to spend their Christmas vacation in 2001 skiing/boarding an olympic venue. Read this article on the economic effects of the olympics for a more complete analysis.

Note on that Forest Service datasheet above, Snowbasin in the only 2002 Olympic venue listed. I would bet that the other olympic venues (Deer Valley, Park City, Soldier Hollow, etc) would have similar data.

This post has been edited by Compuboks: 19 May 2007 - 05:41 AM

[SkiBachelor]

I knew about the Olympics, but felt that fell under marketing.

[tahoeistruckin]

SkiBachelor, on May 15 2007, 03:14 PM, said:

Earl Holding has expanded the terrain at Snowbasin, with the installation of the John Paul Express, Olympic Tram and Strawberry Gondola. I would say that's a pretty good size expansion for a 10 year time period.

The problem with Snowbasin is that it's too far away from SLC that destination skiers don't want to make the journey there when they're so much closer to the Park City and Cottonwood Canyon resorts. If Snowbasin wants to become more profitable and build a larger customer base, it should focus on becoming more of a locals mountain like Mt. Bachelor. It takes a very long time for a ski resort to build a customer base and its hard for Snowbasin to achieve when its preferred clientele is skiing Deer Valley. For as long as I know, Snowbasin has always been a money pit for its owners and has put them into bankruptcy, like Peter Seibert (founder and former owner of Vail), even though it has great terrain. Luckily, Earl has deep enough pockets, but I'm sure he feels that Snowbasin was a bad investment for him and his company.

If anyone would like to disagree, be my guest and feel free to reply.

I beg to differ. Snowbasin IS NOT THAT FAR from SLC.
Acoording to MS Trips and maps it's 43 miles 50 min. I-15 north, US 89 north,I-84 east, st route 167 north to the parking lot.
Since your leaving slc early in the am, you miss for most part rush hr, southbound is a differant story.

And no traffic to speak of from PC to Snowbasin , any time of day.

Park City to Snowbasin IS NOT THAT FAR EITHER.
St 224 to I-80 east, onto I-84 west, to st rt 167 north. 65 miles 1 hr ,9 min
How can this be so long, considering poeple will fly into Denver and drive a min of 2.5 hrs on a good day to reach Vail, Breck, Copper, and longer to Steamboat.

Never have skied Snowbasin, but have wanted to. Guess i better save up for the lift ticket.

No one really knows what Earl is worth, he's a very very private person, and doesn't grant all that many interviews.(Edgar Stern at DV gives more interviews)
He does own the Little America Hotel Chain, which includes the Grand America Hotel, built for the games, to house the I O C upper management types. No one knows how much he spent on it, cause everything wwas imported from over seas. and being privately held company u, he doesn't have to report earnings.
He also owns a little forgotton oil compnay called Sinclar. Oh it's still in operation today, just not as big as it was in our grandparents days.

This post has been edited by tahoeistruckin: 19 May 2007 - 09:25 AM

[Callao]

It might not be far, but it is farther. For Utah, that is. Have you skied Snowbird? Any of the Cottonwood resorts or PC? Have you skied Snowbasin? It's convenient; it's easy. But it didn't cut it for you (anybody). It may make perfect sense to ski Snowbasin, but you never showed up. And neither did I.

[Callao]

Solitude is also a resort with lower numbers. I've never been there either, though I, like everybody else in Utah, has driven past it many times. Why? Something didn't cut it.

Such a fine line!

This post has been edited by Callao: 19 May 2007 - 12:17 PM

[defence2]

Callao, on May 19 2007, 04:16 PM, said:

Solitude is also a resort with lower numbers. I've never been there either, though I, like everybody else in Utah, has driven past it many times. Why? Something didn't cut it.

Such a fine line!

Solitude is actually phenomenal for that reason. Most people pass it to go to Brighton. Solitude lacks the lift system and some of the amentities of other resorts, but the snow seems to be less skiied and theres never any lift lines. When I stayed in Salt Lake, everyone suggested it.

[Callao]

Solitude is on my to-do list. It's just a little more pricey than using my season pass. I used to think of them as the Cottonwood underdog, but they cater to a different crowd: Slower-paced and relaxed, great place for the family--that is what I associate with Solitude right now.

And as for Snowbasin, once again, what are they anyway? We'll wait to see what crowd they choose to cater to. I doubt it will ever be locals.

[defence2]

Callao, on May 20 2007, 02:21 PM, said:

Solitude is on my to-do list. It's just a little more pricey than using my season pass. I used to think of them as the Cottonwood underdog, but they cater to a different crowd: Slower-paced and relaxed, great place for the family--that is what I associate with Solitude right now.

And as for Snowbasin, once again, what are they anyway? We'll wait to see what crowd they choose to cater to. I doubt it will ever be locals.

It used to be a locals mountain, but when I was there I heard mixed reactions from them. They loved the new terrain and lifts, but not so much the prices. I think Earl is aiming for the Deer Valley Crowd, but thats a pretty lofty goal. I admit that I really liked Snowbasin when I was there. IT did not have the extreme terrain of alta or snowbird, but they have some terrain, they have good snow, and a good variety of runs. I think Earl should really go after the family crowd, as theres really something there for everyone. If I remember correctly there is not base lodge or anything like it at the base of the mountain. Most other resorts can count on families and groups staying there all week and skiing at only there resort. Ogden is nice, but its not right at the base of the mountain.

[defence2]

I believe that Snow Basin will get a great reputation for its lift system too. Its nothing short of extraordinary, one tram, two gondolas, a HSQ, four triples and a double. Ski magazine ranked it #1 for its lift system. They outta start a marketing campaign promising that you will get more vertical in a day there than anywhere else.

[Peter]

Not that "extraordinary" if you ask me. There are areas with much higher percentages of high speed lifts.

[skier14]

Callao, on May 20 2007, 12:21 PM, said:

Solitude is on my to-do list. It's just a little more pricey than using my season pass. I used to think of them as the Cottonwood underdog, but they cater to a different crowd: Slower-paced and relaxed, great place for the family--that is what I associate with Solitude right now.

And as for Snowbasin, once again, what are they anyway? We'll wait to see what crowd they choose to cater to. I doubt it will ever be locals.

I skied solitude once and it was great no liftlines or people on the slopes. My only complaint is the lift system, if your into fg lifts its the resort for you. As for snowbasin i still think a 45 min. trip up there when i could just go to a cottonwood resort and pay less for a ticket and gas. Its really not convient at all, especially if your tired at the end of the day and dont want to drive 45mins south back to slc.

[CH3skier]

The extra drive is worth the better skiing at Snow Basin compared to Solitude. As far as cost, Snow Basin is pretty good about early season and end of season pricing (reduced lift tickets for the conditions). Also they are good to military, (Hill Air Force base). If you know some who works at HAFB, a day pass sells on base for about $43. Also you can buy a discount card for $20 and only takes two times of skiing to cover the cost. I know they also have some local coupons, just like most of Utah resorts. I would say it is worth a try, especially on a weekday.