Skilifts.org / SORT Forum

Hello folks,

Name here is Ryan, glad to have found this site, have already spent several hours going through the photos and info on some of my favorite lifts. I grew up riding the lifts at Snowbasin, Utah. Mainly Becker, Wildcat, Middlebowl, and Porky (nickname for Porcupine) all tripples. These were the days back in the 80s so no High Speed Quads or Gondolas to speed you up the mountain, just a nice lazy ride to the top with beautiful scenery, and lots of fun memories. Since Snowbasin has installed the newer lifts, I've come to find out that my old favorites Wildcat and Middlebowl are only used on the weekends or high traffic days. Makes me sad, but they are getting up there in years, I hope they will keep them for at least a another 5-10 years before replacing them. When they take down a lift, its like loosing a good friend. Broke my heart just to read about the testing they did on the poor old Eskimo lift at Winter Park!

Anyways glad to be here and have a great week.

Welcome aboard! My thoughts exactly on taking down an old lift. Hope they don't take out any of ours anytime! Badger's known for being an informal ski area with nothing fancy.

I like those kind of ski areas. That are sort of relaxed nature and don't care about having NEW everything. I rather spend money at some hometown ski area, than some fast paced place.

There's some people that say we should replace Eagle with an HSQ. But we're not that big. Besides, they try and get rid of my baby they'll have a fight on their hands!

JustJeepIt, on May 2 2007, 09:10 PM, said:

I agree about the usefulness of older chairlifts. I like the newer high speed lifts to give the tourists a lift to ride on so we can have our older slower lifts to ourselves and get a ton more skiing/ riding in. I'm thinking particularly of Mary Jane (at Winter Park, CO). On weekdays the only lift that serves the lower 2/3 of the mountain is a HSS known as the Super Guage I have heard it nicknamed the "Stupid Gauge" since it stops and slows all the time. On the weekends Iron Horse, Challenger, and Pony Express (all H-P double chairs built in the mid 70s) run as well as the SG. This exponentially improves the ski day since the double chairs efficiently serve specific parts of Mary Jane eliminating a lot of traversing and increasing the amount of skiing which can be had on a typical day. Since the lifts are older and slower, you can ride one on a Saturday when there is powder and wait a maximum of 5 minutes while the SG has lines overflowing the corrals lasting in excess of 20 minutes. While I understand the financial movtives behind most of WP/MJ's lift decisions, I often wish they would at least run Challenger during the week. I remember when they used to (back when SG was a HSQ which is what I wish it still was) and there was no better way to spend a day.

That's crap that they don't even run Challenger at all. I take the SG for the first ride up, and then mainly Challenger from then on out. I am however happy to see Summit Express gone. The lines are better with Super Guage, when it's running efficiently. (10% of the time. ) It's better than it was the season that they put it in.

The two times I have been to Snowbasin, the Wildcat is the only lift which has been closed. I did enjoy Middlebowl and Porcupine chairs especially. That is totally cool on Porky and Becker how you ski into the shack at the bottom to catch the chair.

GOOD NEWS! GOOD NEWS! They are not planning on removing Littlecat or Wildcat anytime soon, however, the rumor of a new lift going in called "Littlecat Express" is just that, a rumor :(

Quoted from Snowbasin's response to my inquiry:

To answer your question Wildcat, Little Cat, and Middle Bowl will not be going any where. We currently have no plans to eliminate or replace any of them, they are good lifts and access great terrain. As for a "Little Cat Express" this is not happening either. So no major changes this summer, sorry to get your hopes up. Have a great day and come see us soon.

The Little Cat Express is listed in their master plan, but with the lack of skier visits Snowbasin has been receiving after its huge capital investments, I can see this project being put on hold.

I just can''t believe Earl Holding is putting up Quarter Dollar Express, a 1 minute hs lift when he could put it on real terrain at Snowbasin. I really think beginners need to just deal with the fixed grip chairs on Dollar. It just isn't that hard, and if it is, use the magic carpet. By the way, there are magic carpet that are longer that the quarter dollar high speed quad.

Skier, on May 14 2007, 10:54 PM, said:

Earl has really focused on dollar mountain the last few years to boost family visits to the resort. He has put in magic carpets, a tubing hill, a new lodge, and a snowmaking system. All of those have boosted dollar's ticket sales (except for the tubing hill). I think this is another way to boost family visits and what better way than to say "we have two brand new HIGH SPEED QUADS!!!!" That sounds a lot better than "we have two new quad lifts". Also, high speed detachables are the only way to go when your skiers are millionaires and expect only the best.

The Quarter Dollar High Speed quad is ridiculous. Full Dollar is not really necessary, but theres more of a reason for it. I feel like Sun Valley and Snowbasin are not really for profit resorts. They are in a way, Earl's toy's. I think he is trying to maintain them in a state so that they well be sellable eventually, as hes getting older. I do wish he would build new lifts that open up new terrain, in both Sun Valley and Snow Basin. Snow Basin has real potiential, and I thourghly enjoyed my trip up there. In a place like Salt Lake, with dozens of excellent ski resorts, it needs to differentiate itself. Alta, Snowbird, Park City, The Canyons, Deer Valley, Powder Mountain, Brighton, and Solitude all have distinct identities (some for family, others for hardcore skiing). Snowbasin does not have this at the moment. I did read an article in this past year saying that Ogden was poised to become a major ski industry town in the years to come, so maybe their is potential.

I think at 80 years of age and a stroke in 2002, he is probably not looking at the long term. He is also estimated to have a net worth of 1.5 billion. How much more does he need?

Earl Holding has expanded the terrain at Snowbasin, with the installation of the John Paul Express, Olympic Tram and Strawberry Gondola. I would say that's a pretty good size expansion for a 10 year time period.

The problem with Snowbasin is that it's too far away from SLC that destination skiers don't want to make the journey there when they're so much closer to the Park City and Cottonwood Canyon resorts. If Snowbasin wants to become more profitable and build a larger customer base, it should focus on becoming more of a locals mountain like Mt. Bachelor. It takes a very long time for a ski resort to build a customer base and its hard for Snowbasin to achieve when its preferred clientele is skiing Deer Valley. For as long as I know, Snowbasin has always been a money pit for its owners and has put them into bankruptcy, like Peter Seibert (founder and former owner of Vail), even though it has great terrain. Luckily, Earl has deep enough pockets, but I'm sure he feels that Snowbasin was a bad investment for him and his company.

If anyone would like to disagree, be my guest and feel free to reply.

In general, I think most of the locals around here prefer Powder Mountain over Snowbasin. They have more of a "small town feel."

Skier visits for Snowbasin, from the USFS:
1994: 64,742
1995: 98,039
1996: 66,400
1997: 88,388
1998: 94,000
1999: 86,700
2000: 79,600
2001: 155,237
2002: 120,478
2003: 127,151
2004: 177,621

Eleven-year skier-visit totals:
Snowbasin: 1,158,356
Alta: 4,635,661
Snowbird: 4,302,279
Brighton: 3,936,435
Solitude: 2,058,305

The Canyons reported 403,000 skier visits in 2004.

Those numbers don't look good for Snowbasin for a resort of that size. My local ski hill (Willamette Pass) gets more skier visits than Snowbasin for its 5 year average.

Are these stats on the USFS website Callao?

Callao, on May 16 2007, 11:23 AM, said:

Does anyone know when earl bought snowbasin? It would be interesting if he bought it in 2000 and turned those numbers around. As for it being a local resort, i doubt it because the season pass price is ridiculous and so it will never be a local hill until that price goes down. Am i right red army? Up here in Sun Valley the newspapers blasted the company for not having a reasonable price for season passes.

I use to live down in SLC and even the locals there will ask, where is snowbasin? I had no idea where it was until i started working for sun valley.

As for making a profit i cant speak for snowbasin, but i think sun valley is near the break even point when it comes to mountain operations. I know that the golf course is the company's money maker. Thats probably why they are building another course.

Earl bought it from Peter Seibert in 1984 and for probably less than $5 million.

Peter Seibert bought Snowbasin in 1978 for $2.9 million.

SkiBachelor, on May 16 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

Wonder what happened in 2000?