53 replies to this topic

[Snoqualmie guy]

My favorite kind of run is a double black.

[Dr Frankenstein]

double black.... duuuh...

[Peter]

triple black? I think we have determined that there is no such thing.

I prefer to do a lot of sidecountry/backcountry skiing where there is no rating!

[liftmech]

A green... on a sled... going uphill... with tourists... it ain't green anymore, folks, there's your triple black! Did anyone say 'missle lock'? Or perhaps 'driving the wrong way on a one-way street?'

[poloxskier]

The steeper and faster the better!

[Snoqualmie guy]

Skier, on Apr 24 2007, 02:56 PM, said:

triple black? I think we have determined that there is no such thing.

I prefer to do a lot of sidecountry/backcountry skiing where there is no rating!

Most backcountry is rated double diamond. And yes there is triple blacks. which is pushing a cliff. There are some at Alpentals backcountry.

This post has been edited by Snoqualmie guy: 25 April 2007 - 10:04 AM

[Peter]

SnoqualmieGuy, there are no ratings for the backcountry, or for that matter many areas inbounds at some areas. The point is, there are backcountry areas that are wide open, gentle bowls that would be greens or blues in a ski area. Then there are steep chutes that would be double diamonds. Even ratings in ski areas are not exact, there is no specific formula. You can say that something seems like a double black inbounds, but no one officially rates any backcountry run. And I still insist that there are no triple black diamonds, it is just marketing. Regardless, at some point, ratings don't really even matter.

[Snoqualmie guy]

The ratings for backcountry are to tell what is the highest rated run possible. If I was to look on the Crystal Mountian web page then I would see next to the words North Back country or south a Double Black Diamond. This does not mean that the whole area is like this, but just to keep out novices like me.

[Lift Kid]

I like Blacks because they're not too hard but not too easy, however, I can ski anything I want. I am a very able skier. Moguls, although I can do them, aren't my favorite though. I really do hate catwalks and greens. I esspecially hate 4 O' Clock run from the top of the Colorado to the bottom. Its nice, but way too crowded, esspecially on the parts where its below the Colorado but above the base. Everytime I ski that run, I am almost hit by someone out of control. Ugh.... The upper part of it off of 6 chair is fine though.

[liftmech]

Snoqualmie guy, on Apr 25 2007, 06:10 PM, said:

The ratings for backcountry are to tell what is the highest rated run possible.

Really?

I think there's some confusion as to what 'backcountry' really means. To most ski area skiers/boarders, backcountry is the stuff just outside the boundary ropes. Crystal and Alpental have areas they market as 'backcountry', which in fact is inside the permit area, named, and patrolled/controlled for avalanches. This is not true backcountry. True backcountry skiing/boarding involves hiking, skinning, or snowshoeing uphill or at least traversing from a high road access point out into terrain which is most definitely not controlled. One must have the knowledge and ability to read snowpack, decide upon avalanche safety zones, find safe routes, and rescue onself and/or others in the event of an emergency. As Skier rightly noted, true backcountry is not rated for difficulty.
I say this knowing that I'm not a backcountry skier either- I don't even own a tranceiver, my shovel will more than likely be used to dig my car out of a ditch rather than dig out a fellow skier, and so on. Nevertheless, it's an important distinction to know.

[Peter]

My point exactly, Crystal/Alpental's backcountry is not backcountry at all, but inbounds "sidecountry" as I call it. The vast majority of ski areas in the rest of the country do not have this. I was saying that real backcountry, which requires alpine touring is not rated at all. Also, North Back at Crystal will be inbounds completely next year, with a few blue runs and black runs. I am really scared that there is a blue run going right along the ridge on top of Niagras, that could be trouble.

[Snoqualmie guy]

So if there is a VAST amount of ski areas that have the TRUE BACKCOUNTRY, who are they?? And if this SIDECOUNTRY is what you call it, then why is it called BACKCOUNTRY and why do you need a BACKCOUNTRY PASS to go in it??? It can't be inbounds because it has gates for which you are supposed to go through, after that you are on your own.
Ya, I can see what you mean about a blue over the Niagras. This could mean PROBLEMS!!!

[Peter]

Uhhh, I don't think you get it. Let me try and explain this better. Outside of all ski areas is backcountry. The "backcountry" at Crystal is within their inbounds permitted terrain, but they are not allowed to put lifts on that terrain without approval (or anywhere without approval for that matter.) In Crystal's case, the "backcountry" designation is more of a legal designation than anything else. Partol controls it, but they have a "ski at your own risk, avalanche area" sign. This way they can't lose a lawsuit if there is an avalanche. After you get to a certain point at Crystal, there are more signs that say "Designated Permit Boundary, No Avalanche Control beyond this point" At Crystal these borders are the far side of Morning Glory Bowl on the North and Three Way Peak on the South. This area is never controlled, patrolled, or closed. It is public land open to everyone all the time. I am not quite as familiar with Alpental's backcountry policy, but the terrain that can be traversed out to easily is almost certainly controlled. The ski area monitors this, but like Crystal posts signs so they are not liable for injury/death. True backcountry is not under any ski area special use permit, and is usually accessed by alpine touring. Many backcountry tourers today use skins and rondonee skis to tour the backcountry. I hope this helps.

This post has been edited by Skier: 25 April 2007 - 09:18 PM

[Snoqualmie guy]

So, Crystal and Alpental have no backcountry. They just want you to think that it is, right? The only backcountry that Crystal has is the back side which they say they will snatch yer pass if you go down it. Also there are lots of hiking involed at Alpental(not sure about Crystal) and lots of traversing. So what ski areas have REAL BACKCOUNTRY 'cause I haven't seen them.

[poloxskier]

Some areas have backcountry access gates but technicaly none have backcountry. The definition of backcountry is out of ski area terrain. Most resorts in Colorado have some form of backcountry access unless the area beyond the boundary is private land or has a specific forest service closure.

[Peter]

You really don't get it. Real backcountry doesn't belong to a ski area and isn't necessarily next to one. There is tons of accesible backcountry around Crystal, Norse Peak, Crystal Lakes, etc. The whole area between Snoqualmie and Crystal is backcountry. Get it?

[Lift Kid]

To sum up what everyone is trying to say:

Backcountry is a term meant to mean "not run by the ski area." The ski area does not patrol, control, or maintain any part of it. Some ski areas may say they have "backcountry" but it is really ski area boundry. It's just a difficult run basically.

[skierdude9450]

Skier's sidecountry would be something like what I outlined in red on the map. It's outside of the boundry, but still has plenty of tracks and is avalanche controlled. Backcountry would be like skiing one of those mountains in the background.

If I ever find a triple black, I will ski it. In Colorado, we have double blacks with an ex in the center meaning extreme terrain.

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This post has been edited by skierdude9450: 26 April 2007 - 05:00 PM

[poloxskier]

skierdude9450, on Apr 26 2007, 03:58 PM, said:

Skier's sidecountry would be something like what I outlined in red on the map. It's outside of the boundry, but still has plenty of tracks and is avalanche controlled. Backcountry would be like skiing one of those mountains in the background.

If I ever find a triple black, I will ski it. In Colorado, we have double blacks with an ex in the center meaning extreme terrain.

What you are refering to as "sidecountry" is in fact not only inside of our boundary, and has been for many years, but is also just like any bowl at any resort. Most access is by guided cat trip to the bowl areas at keystone. Just because terrain is not advertized on the map doesnt mean that its outside of boundaries, those are the locals trails.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 26 April 2007 - 09:08 PM

[skier14]

I love green circles