34 replies to this topic

[SkiBachelor]

I'm amazed that a single CWA Omega 3 gondola cabin now costs $35,000, up $10,000 from 9 years ago. While the value of the U.S. Dollar has fallen (still worth more than 1 Swiss Francs. $1 = 1.2 CHF) and inflation has risen, a 40% increase in the price of a gondola cabin doesn't justify this for me. Usually, the price of a product is supposed to fall after it has been on the market for a few years as its R&D costs have been paid for, but I guess with only three gondola manufacturers, the industry has become some what monopolistic. The only logical explanation that I can think of on why these prices would be so high is that container shipping rates have gone up but I don't think that's the case either as rates average about 1.2% each year. There shouldn't be any tariffs as both Switzerland and the USA both belong to the WTO, plus Doppelmayr CTEC is a subsidiary of Doppelmayr/Garaventa which owns CWA which would also eliminate any tariffs.

http://www.sunvalleyonline.com/news/articl...ID_Article=3125

Does anyone have a good explanation or know why gondola cabin prices are so expensive in the first place and have risen 41% over the last 9 years?

[skierdude9450]

One reason is most likely the rising poularity. Think of all of the gondola projects this year. There were two 8 passenger gondolas one 6 passenger gondola, a 6-8 chondola, and a major six passenger cabin replacement. Every single one of those were some form of CWA Omega III cabins, either 6 or 8 passengers. Since that's what everyone wants, that's what everyone will pay. In fact, the only recent gondolas I could find without CWA cabins are the Sky Cab at Snowmass, and the Happy Valley Gondola at Big White, which are both miniscule gondolas with less than 25 cabins each. CWA has become so popular, they're almost a monopoly. When they're so popular, with a demand for every gondola they can charge whatever they want and get away with it. Just my $35,000

[SkiBachelor]

I understand that CWA is very popular for its gondola cabins, but $35,000 seems too much for something that should probably be worth $8,000 to $13,000, even considering your micro economic point about a high demand and low quantity equals a higher price. However, you would think that CWA would just expand its operations by building a larger facility to accommodate the extra demand to lower prices. North American ski resorts get burned since they have to purchase their lifts out of their own pocket were as most European lifts are purchased by the government, especially in France. Another thing that I didn't consider though was that since CWA's gondola cabin division is a cash cow, it could be using the profits to fund and develop higher cost projects.

In the end, the ski resorts distribute the costs through the sale of the lift tickets by a few bucks. The Aspen Skiing Company spent $6.5 million on gondola cabins last year, enough to almost buy two new HSQs.

[Allan]

Most ski lift related equipment is quite expensive... here's some other approximate prices on small items:

CTEC spoked sheave: $600
Mueller 70mm sheave liner: $140
Doppelmayr springbox spring: $110
Mueller 6er/8er main axle: $1436

[EricEurope]

SkiBachelor, on Feb 28 2007, 06:23 AM, said:

North American ski resorts get burned since they have to purchase their lifts out of their own pocket were as most European lifts are purchased by the government, especially in France.

I'm very sure that this is not the case, at least not in central Europe (Austria, Germany and Switzerland) about France I don't know much. The smaller lift companies are supported by the public, as new Lifts are good for the whole tourism sector in the area. But the new Doppelmayr HSQ at Feldberg in Germany, a 7million Euro project for example was supported by the state with only 250.000 Euros. In Austria and Switzerland this is quite similar, only ski areas that would have to be closed without new Lifts, are getting more money, but still they have to pay the larger amount on their own.
$35.000 for a CWA Omega really seems very much to me too, but I think it's the price for the new Omega IV version. As far as I remember, 2 years ago the operator of a new gondola in Kitzbühel, Austria had to pay 18.000 Euros for each CWA Omega III.

[liftmech]

Does this $35,000 include the grip and hanger arm, or just the cabin? If it includes all of the above, grips ain't cheap either and that will definitely skewer the price you were quoted.

[Outback]

liftmech, on Feb 28 2007, 05:24 AM, said:

Does this $35,000 include the grip and hanger arm, or just the cabin? If it includes all of the above, grips ain't cheap either and that will definitely skewer the price you were quoted.

Cabin only!

[skierdude9450]

A ski area wants to buy a gondola to promote it's tourism and to say that they have a gondola. They decide that they want CWA's Omega III 8-passenger cabins because everyone has those, and they would be a fool if they didn't get that model. They want to have a midstation in the gondola which costs them an extra $1,500,000 added to their current quote of $11,560,000 without grips or cabins. Since this gondola is expected to draw visitors from near and far, they need to have a capacity of 3,000 people per hour. To accomplish this, this means that the gondola needs to have 151 cabins with grips and hangar arms.

Given: each cabin costs $35,000 and each grip with hangar arm costs $5,000

Part A: Define two variables: one for total cost, and one for the number of cabins

Part B: Set up an equation to find the total cost of the gondola project

Part C: Solve the eqution

Part D: Write two to three sentences explaining how the gondola system is completely justifiable because it will bring tourists to the area and raise the local economy.

[skidv]

That will cost them $19,100,000!

[SkiBachelor]

The detachable grip alone is $5000.

I tried buying one when I was at Doppelmayr CTEC until I found out the price.

[lastchair_44]

Outback, on Feb 28 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Cabin only!

I was going to say, I thought our "X" cabins (which aren't made anymore I'm told) were 60,000 a piece including grip, hanger, and supsension. That's 1,080,000 for an 18 cabin capacity upgrade.

[skierdude9450]

Well, first I would think that the Conus (I think that's what they are) cabins would be more expensive than the Omega IIIs, and also it would be very expensive since the Poma double TB grip isn't made anymore and would have to be specially ordered and manufactured, so instead of paying the standard $4-5000 per grip, it's probably more like $10-12,000 per grip.

[lastchair_44]

skierdude9450, on Feb 28 2007, 09:10 PM, said:

Well, first I would think that the Conus (I think that's what they are) cabins would be more expensive than the Omega IIIs, and also it would be very expensive since the Poma double TB grip isn't made anymore and would have to be specially ordered and manufactured, so instead of paying the standard $4-5000 per grip, it's probably more like $10-12,000 per grip.

yeah I remember hearing 14,000 or 16,000 for the TB50 double...someone correct me here

[random_ski_guy]

lastchair_44, on Feb 28 2007, 08:19 PM, said:

yeah I remember hearing 14,000 or 16,000 for the TB50 double...someone correct me here

hi, random net denizen here. just a thought, what about materials costs. globally, thanks to global demand and increased environmental and energy costs, most materials of all kinds (particularly metals) have far outpaced inflation.

otherwise, i would chalk the pricing up to monopoly power. hey, lets jump in with our own cabin?

[SkiBachelor]

While the price of some materials like metal have risen, they have started to fall. However, CWA's gondolas aren't made out of that much metal so that doesn't justify the 40% price increase either.

[Aussierob]

I think the cabins on Excalibur at Blackcomb were about $50,000CDN with grip and hanger (in 1994). Note the cabins also have stainless steel panels. We may be buying 150 omegas for the whistler gondola next year. Big money.

[BWaTurnin]

SkiBachelor, on Feb 27 2007, 07:38 PM, said:

I'm amazed that a single CWA Omega 3 gondola cabin now costs $35,000, up $10,000 from 9 years ago. While the value of the U.S. Dollar has fallen (still worth more than 1 Swiss Francs. $1 = 1.2 CHF) and inflation has risen, a 40% increase in the price of a gondola cabin doesn't justify this for me. Usually, the price of a product is supposed to fall after it has been on the market for a few years as its R&D costs have been paid for, but I guess with only three gondola manufacturers, the industry has become some what monopolistic. The only logical explanation that I can think of on why these prices would be so high is that container shipping rates have gone up but I don't think that's the case either as rates average about 1.2% each year. There shouldn't be any tariffs as both Switzerland and the USA both belong to the WTO, plus Doppelmayr CTEC is a subsidiary of Doppelmayr/Garaventa which owns CWA which would also eliminate any tariffs.

http://www.sunvalleyonline.com/news/articl...ID_Article=3125

Does anyone have a good explanation or know why gondola cabin prices are so expensive in the first place and have risen 41% over the last 9 years?

Sometimes you have to take everything w/ a grain of salt - example - Steel costs for a similar period have doubled. Tube and pipe prices have experienced an even more dramatic climb. Steel as an example has risen 15-20% in the last 2 years alone. Freight has also experienced a very large rise - sum it up and things ain't cheap anymore.

Later

[skierdude9450]

Aussierob, on Feb 28 2007, 10:32 PM, said:

I think the cabins on Excalibur at Blackcomb were about $50,000CDN with grip and hanger (in 1994). Note the cabins also have stainless steel panels. We may be buying 150 omegas for the whistler gondola next year. Big money.

Do they make Omega series 10 passenger, or will it be some other capacity?

[Peter]

The Omega Cabins go all the way up to 16 passengers.

[Aussierob]

I believe the plan is to go with 8 pass. on a closer spacing to maintain capacity.