36 replies to this topic

[skier14]

Emax, on Oct 22 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

It's been a long time since I attended high school, so I ask: "Is simple algebra still taught? Basic physics? Must one still prove these subjects were actually learned in order to graduate? Do they still teach English and spelling?

In my book, these skills are bottom line requirements for anyone laying claim to technical competence.

Funny you bring this up. I graduated from a california high school two years ago. They made us take two tests (math and english) that every jr in high school had to pass or they wouldnt graduate. I took the test and most of it was 2 + 2 = ? The hardest stuff, and there was only a few questions like it, were x+4=6. When i read the questions i had to keep myself from laughing. Well my Sr year california ruled the tests were too hard and too many kids had failed them. so they took the tests requirement out of the graduation requirements, so they could redesign the tests so they were easier.

Now a days if you want to go to a four year college you need to have taken 4 years of english and 3 years of math (you need to at least finish pre-calculus to be accepted) then depending on the college they need to be at least a C average for the worst of colleges. This all comes from experience.

hope that gives an idea of what the public school system is like currently

[cjb]

It has been a few more than two years since I graduated but not near as long as when EMAX graduated . We did not have the exit exams then but I have heard about them lately on the talk radio etc... I may not be exact but the 'passing grades for the test was in the 50% neighborhood and the material in the tests is based on 8th grade math and 10 grade english. Still we wonder why we can't compete with other countries. I am not talking about our 'best' competeing with their 'best' but instead our average vs their average. Bad news, it is affecting our colleges too. I went to an accredited college specializing in degrees for working adults for about two years. The level of ignorance existing was amazing but the fact that the instructors let it go was even worse. We had a woman in a marketing class go on a five minute rant about how sexist it is for companies to have 'target markets'. A guy in another class did a presentation on regulatory agencies of financial institutions and only mentioned OSHA. Not the SEC or the Fed, but Osha. Neither instructor in either class corrected these students and they both passed their classes and stayed in ther school. I had GI Bill $ that I had to use so I stayed with the school to finish the program but I will never recommend it to anyone. (University of Phoenix)

[Yaoma]

lastchair_44, on Oct 21 2006, 02:00 PM, said:

Thanks everyone! It's going to be different...but I think it's going to be a great experience

Good Luck out there man ....
Iam gonna stick out 1 more season here
"they haven't broke me yet"

pow must be nice....

[Peter]

In Washington, starting with the class of 2008, all high school 12th graders will have to pass the WASL, a test of 9th grade skills. Right now, about 50% pass math and 30% pass science. Pretty depressing. Luckily I have passed all of them!

[SkiBachelor]

We have a similar test that students take here in Oregon, but it also covers science rather than just math and english.

I had to take the science one twice because my first test got lost.

[floridaskier]

We have the FCAT that you have to take every year until junior year in high school to move on to the next grade. In 10th grade there's a science part, and all through high school there's writing on it too. It's really easy, but it's all taking over the state school system, and plenty of people fail it and have to take summer school to go to the next grade. Every school gets a 'grade' from A-D,F based on the kids' FCAT scores that determines how much state money the school gets

[Lift Dinosaur]

The Evolution of Math:

Teaching Math in 1950: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of that price. What is his profit?

Teaching Math in 1960: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

Teaching Math in 1970: A logger exchanges a set "L" of lumber for a set "M" of money. The cardinality of set "M" is 100. Each element is worth one dollar. Make 100 dots representing the elements of set "M". The set "C", the cost of production contains 20 fewer points than set "M". Represent the set "C" as a subset of set "M" and answer the following question: What is the cardinality of the set "P" of profits?

Teaching Math in 1980: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math in 1990: By cutting down beautiful forest trees, the logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the forest birds and squirrels "feel" as the logger cut down the trees? There are no wrong answers.

Teaching Math in 2002: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $120. How does Arthur Andersen determine that his profit margin is $60?

Teaching Math in 2010: Le hacero vende un camion carga por $100. La cuesta de production es......

[Lift Kid]

In Minnesota, we have to pass the MCA test (Minnesota Comprehensive Assesment Test) in almost all of the grades from 6th until 11th grade in English, Reading, and Math with a certain point score (I am not sure of the secific score) to graduate.

[skier691]

I have been out of school but for a little more than 10 years now, and would also agree that things are only getting worse as time goes on. America has decided to spend its money elsewhere then in its education of the next generation. I think America has gotten soft. No longer is it ok to punish youre kids, kids are said too be "over stressed with all their activities and school work"??(only to be 16 again!!), homework answers are only a google search away, satelite/cable tv, video games, etc etc etc, all things that have come about since my time and that I feel have hurt the learning curve in both mental and social aspects today. I read in a newspaper the other day that some elementary schools now are not even teaching cursive handwriting because students relate better to block letters that everone uses now with work associated with computers and such. At my high school, we had to take 4 years of high school math and english, take a semester of foreign language, and a semester of physics or chemistry. There was no 'graduation test', if you were a dumb ass, well, youre probably still a dumb ass. My only wish,,, if I only took more Spanish... them people are taking over.

[liftmech]

Same deal as 691's school, except that we had a year of foreign language and a year of physics or chem (I opted for chem, should have taken physics, eh?) We had a math seminar at work last winter and our younger techs needed lots of help. (I can't say I did very well either but that's my own fault for not keeping up).

Another problem I see cropping up in schools is the standardised tests you younger guys are referring to. Teachers spend all year prepping kids for the test and not teaching them anything that is actually useful. 'Teaching to the test' is becoming a real problem.

[cjb]

You can't say that $ spent is the problem, the U.S. ranks highcompared to most other countries in terms of dollars spent, and a statistic I saw recently showed the huge increase of $ spent in education over the last few decades compared to the results. The whole system needs to be changed, there is no competition for public schools, therefore no incentive to perform. No pressure on most kids from their parents to perform, and teachers are forced to be classroom cops more than instructors or educators.

[SkiBachelor]

I graduated high school with a 3.75 GPA thinking I was a good student until I got into College. Boy was that an eye opener to see the bad grades that I got in some classes like Writing 121 and now BA 352. I never learned how to do this in high school and it makes me look like I'm an idiot.

However, I did have some great teachers in high school that I learned a lot from while others basically just did it as an easy job. I had to take Math 95 (Algebra 2) over again because my teacher failed to teach us all the stuff that was required for college level math.

[Carl]

lastchair_44, on Oct 20 2006, 07:09 PM, said:

To expand my knowledge of lifts.

This image came from JH's Casper Cam....

A wee bit of trouble with some Yan parts......


Good Luck! There are some good guys in their LM Dept.

Carl

[darkshark0159]

mmm, FCAT, CSAP, all stuff i've done. they're a load of crap. thanks to those tests the teachers have to teach based on what's going to be on the test rather than what we need to learn.

Here is a story from when I lived in FL: durring the early years of a math program called MEGSSS (math for the exceptionally gifted somethin somethin somethin) , the students in the program would score low of the FCAT because they were learning useful stuff rather than FCAT stuff. Schools wanted higher test scores, more money, etc. and thus dilluted the program with FCAT stuff. Totally ruined the program.

Well, it was better than nothing. East Grand district schools are (no offence) pretty bad. I just cant believe how many high school people are in PRE-algebra and FAIL it! I swear that there are just too many stupid, lazy, illogical americans these days. Horrible

[liftmech]

I agree. We have a programme on our shop computer to calculate loads on our A-frames, for instance. Our senior mechanic makes us do the math on paper first, though, so that we keep in practise. It's all geometry and trig, but many of us find it difficult because we don't do it enough or were never taught it in the first place. Using the computer to figure your load is indeed going throught the motions.

I also agree about the basis of technology. I know I don't understand how some of the basic items I use work, and I like to think that I've got a pretty good grasp of technical things. What of someone who has to use a calculator to add 5+5? These are some of the same people who are working in technological fields at this moment.

An amusing and yet scary story from last week- one of our electricans went out on a service call in the admin office. The problem was that the person could not get her computer and peripherals to power up. It turns out that she'd plugged the power strip into itself... and didn't understand why that wouldn't work. Talk about not understanding what one is using on a daily basis.

For those of you who went to school in a generation where concrete things were taught (see Lift Dino's post about math through the years)- do you think our educational system needs an overhaul? What about the European system, where one can go into vocational programmes where fundamental things are taught first as they ought to be?

Emax, on Oct 29 2006, 11:04 AM, said:

This is a very dangerous position for the civilized world to find itself in.

There have been several science fiction stories dealing with this very statement. The technological aspects of a world or civilization are guarded by a caste of priests who, themselves, do not understand what it is they are operating. They know only that the technology does things for them, and if it breaks down, they cannot fix it. Perhaps this is coming to pass sooner than these authors suspected.

[skibum603]

Emax, on Oct 29 2006, 01:04 PM, said:

"durring the early years of a math program called MEGSSS (math for the exceptionally gifted somethin somethin somethin)"

"...during". Sorry.

I was put into a "cycle" called PSSC Physics (physical science study committee). It emphasized "barnyard physics" and then went on to the theoretical. Worked great! First you learned how to use your mind - then they put stuff into it. I left with an intimate feeling of how the physical world worked. I'm not so sure that this happens anymore. Engineers today take so much for granted - the work that the "ground-layers" fought so hard to gain. Take any "modern device" or concept - op amps, transistors (the bottom line for all microprocessors), cell phones (or even wired ones), engine management computers, television, remote controls... I could go on - precious little of exactly how they work is understood outside an alarmingly small group of people who are still alive. How about working out simple math in one's head? This stuff is BASIC - but not many can still do it. To fuction effectively in the technical world, many concepts and procedures must be second-nature - otherwise, you're just going "through the motions" - never really understanding what you're doing.

This is a very dangerous position for the civilized world to find itself in.

I was lucky, I guess. I did a home school program for my last two years of High School. I would contract retired teaches, or teachers from other schools for all the subjects. It was pass or fail, 89% grade was failing! My math / physics teacher was retired from Ratheon. He worked out the telemetry for balistic missles. So all the trig and algebra I learned was directly related to concepts in physics he was teaching me. So instantly I was able to relate math to the real world in every day life. This made it very fun and personal. When I started at my current job, years ago. I aked a question about voltage drop through a resistor and suggest we find it through ohms law. I was laughed at! He did not understand the math behind electricity, it seems that he had always just " gone through the motions" to solve the problem.

[Matt]

No, I'm not a ski lift tech, but I work with some pretty big motors and drives.