107 replies to this topic

[FSJ]

In a severe stopping situation, the reaction of the rope can cause it to be forced downwards with an acceleration greater than gravity. The chair is fixed to the rope so it moves with it. The passenger is not fixed to the chair. In at least one case, skiers have been ejected over the back of the chair.

[102Terry]

IF you either lose all control power , or with Dopps have a watchdog Fault this will take out brake logic and drop all brakes. We include this brake test in our annual permit inspection and pay close attention to our deccelaration rates.

[coloradoskier]

I honestly can not understand why someone wouldn't want to lower the bar.

A - There are no documented cases of the bar "breaking" when someone fell against it. They can, and will hold people in. That is a foolish argument.

B - There are, however, several documented cases of people falling off lifts without bars.

C - The footrests are comfortable, and if you don't like them, you don't have to use them.

D - They provide people with a sense of security.

[Peter]

coloradoskier, on Dec 5 2007, 10:24 PM, said:

I honestly can not understand why someone wouldn't want to lower the bar.

A - There are no documented cases of the bar "breaking" when someone fell against it. They can, and will hold people in. That is a foolish argument.
The issue is people slipping through them, not them breaking

B - There are, however, several documented cases of people falling off lifts without bars.
There are also cases of children falling off trying to lower or raise the bar.

C - The footrests are comfortable, and if you don't like them, you don't have to use them.
They aren't that cofortable and always bang people on the head when the lowerer does not warn others

D - They provide people with a sense of security.
It is a false sense of security. People may be more foolish than they would because of it and may fall through.

[tahoeistruckin]

An editoral in todays paper from So. Lake Tahoe, about the snowboarder who fell out of the chair.
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/2...inion/112070054


The tragic, accidental death last week of a snowboarder at Heavenly Mountain Resort raises serious safety concerns.

Stateline resident Ryan Donald Moore, 19, died after falling 30 feet from the resort's Dipper Express chairlift. Moore fell at about 11:30 a.m. after leaning forward to care for a leg cramp, a Heavenly news release stated. The chairlift's restraining bar was not engaged.

Moore was accompanied on the chairlift by a friend, according to the El Dorado County Sheriff's Office.

"By all appearances, this was an accident," said Sheriff's Office Lt. Les Lovell.

Moore was not wearing a helmet at the time he fell and landed on terrain not covered with snow, said Heavenly spokesman Russ Pecoraro.

According to the Tahoe Douglas Fire Department medical unit, which responded to the scene, Moore suffered major trauma from the fall and was airlifted to Barton Memorial Hospital, where additional lifesaving measures were unsuccessful.

Heavenly opened for the ski season Nov. 24 using entirely manmade snow on its runs. That left patches of bare ground and rocks beneath the Dipper Express at points along the route.

Could a natural snowpack have cushioned Moore's fall enough for him to have survived? If the answer is yes, should ski resorts consider abandoning their drive to open before nature's ready?

Perhaps.

As for other safety measures: Heavenly encourages riders to use restraining bars on its lifts, though it's not practical to require every rider to use them, Pecoraro said. Using the restraints is encouraged in the skier code of responsibility, posted on lift towers.

"We always encourage people to put the bar down," he explained. "That's one of those things that's hard to police."

Pecoraro said the resort would evaluate possible changes to its safety policies after the incident's investigation is complete.

Heavenly has some hard decisions to make.

By all accounts, Moore was an experienced snowboarder who presumably knew the proper way to ride a chairlift. Yet, from what we know, he fell not by behaving recklessly, but after leaning forward to massage a cramp.

Would the restraining bar have prevented his fall? Nobody can say for sure, but that's what they're designed to do.

As Heavenly and other Lake Tahoe resorts review their safety policies in the wake of Moore's death, they should consider the following:

-- Require, not encourage, chairlift riders to secure restraining bars.

-- If that's impractical, install automatically locking restraining bars that remain locked until chairlifts reach their destinations.

-- Require skiers and snowboarders to wear safety helmets.

The issue is perhaps best summed up by South Shore resident Sara DeFrancesco. The 26-year-old snowboarder was riding the Dipper Express when she looked down and saw Moore surrounded by rescue personnel.

"It was absolutely terrifying to see him helpless there," she said. "There was no question he was in serious trouble."

DeFrancesco admitted not always using chairlift restraining bars but pledged to after witnessing the incident.

"We don't need to be cool," she said. "We need to be safe."

[liftmech]

Quote

Would the restraining bar have prevented his fall? Nobody can say for sure, but that's what they're designed to do.

Are they? Lift manufacturer types- would you say that this is a true statement? This incident may well tip the balance in the 'safety versus comfort' debate. Offhand comments have a way of coming back around; I wonder which lawyer will pick up on this first? Plaintiff for the deceased, or in-house counsel for the manufacturer?

[aug]

aug, on Nov 30 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

Safety bars, restraint bars, tard bars, arm bars , comfort bars. In my own recolection the majority of the older lifts never had such devices. For many many years chairlift riders felt safe and were safe riding aerial lifts. Some where, some one thought that a restraint bar would be a nice option or some government agency decided that (even though riding chairlifts was safer than driving your own car accross town)they would try to make such a dangerous activity safer for the public because we obviously can't decide or make our own choices on what is safe. For those people who do fall out of chairs the most likely cause is their own stupidity and lack of attention. Face it when you are suspended 30 feet off of the ground you have to take some of the responsibility for your own safety and just PAY ATTENTION. This is not a place for horse play , binding adjustments , boot adjustments, or scratching your a--. Truly I feel sorry for the innocent folks that do get injured falling out of aerial lifts, but the number is small on comparison to all of the safe successful rides that we do provide. There will always be gravity , planes will fall from the sky. bridges will collapse , trains will derail. some people will die before their time , darwinisim will remain. no matter how dilligent we are to protect our charges.

I will want to add that sitting thirty feet in the air suspended by a lift carrier is no place for massage therapy. The urge to alieviate the pain of a leg cramp vs. paying attention to your own center of gravity. Are lift riders sense of self preservation dulled when they sit on a chairlift chair. Since we provide a safe secure way up the hill do individuals forget the constant of gravity and the density of the earth? A plea to persons riding all lifts, please sit in the chair and enjoy the view and leave everything else you have to do when you are securely on the terra firma.

[Allan]

Seems falls from carriers are a hot topic right now! See attachments.

Attached File(s)

•  Falls_From_Carriers_Incident_Analysis___May11.pdf (102.11K)
  Number of downloads: 13
•  Falls_From_Carriers_Kelowna_May_07.ppt (2.93MB)
  Number of downloads: 6

[Peter]

At Crystal today, I really noticed that nobody uses the bar. Not ski instructors, not patrollers, not anyone ever.

[Snoqualmie guy]

Thats weird, all the times I've been with patrollers they insist to put down the bar.

[SkiLift101]

HAHA this is what happens when you do not put the bar down in the east.(click here)

[andyh1962]

Snoqualmie guy, on Dec 9 2007, 04:38 PM, said:

Thats weird, all the times I've been with patrollers they insist to put down the bar.

In response to the early December 2007 incident in which a snowboarder who was not using the restraint bar, fell from a chairlift and died of his injuries.

(from an earlier post by this author in this same forum: )

Several stories, both happened while this writer was working as a Ski Patrol at an Ontario resort. At Ontario resorts ALL persons riding chairlifts are required to lower the restraining bar. (Why call it a retraining bar? because it keeps stupid people from falling out.) On this day 4 young men were seen riding a Quad Chair with the restraining bar in the up position.

Ski Patrollers riding a parallel ski lift were able to get to the top of the hill first and stop the young men for a chat. Question asked by Ski Patrollers to the young men. "Why were you riding the lift with the restraining bar up when the rules say, and all the signs say, restrain bars must be lowered. Answer back from young men: "because we needed room to put our racing knee pads and elbow pads on and the restraining bar was in the way" DIRECT QUOTE. Skiers were politely told by Patrollers that this area of Ontario where the Ski Resort was, was subject to frequent Electrical Outages and therefore the ski lift could stop unexpectedly at any time.

I did not say that all people that fall out of chairlifts are stupid. I said that the restraining bars keep stupid people within an exceptable range of gravity balance that would otherwise ordinarily allow them to lean forward and therefore cause other laws of motion to kick into place, bringing about results unexpected by the stupid person but understood by most reasonably intelligent people.

Another resort, different year. A mid week ski patroller as part of daily duties decides to stand near the top of a Quad chair and politely remind the young kids the correct place where they should be raising the restraining bar: " Next time please wait until you pass this point before raising the restraining bar. Thank you." The kids had been raising the bar and moving forward in the chairs, while over a tower, still 35 feet in the air. One week later, on this patroller's day off, a child fell out of the chair, while preparing to off load. This happened about 10 feet uphill from the point where this patroller had been standing during the season to give his education talk. If the child had started his preparation to offload back where other students were doing it he would have fallen 25 feet and been hurt.


My sympathies to the family and friends of the snowboarder who died at Heavenly in the first week of December.

This post has been edited by andyh1962: 23 December 2007 - 02:11 PM

[Phoenix]

coloradoskier, on Dec 5 2007, 10:24 PM, said:

The footrests are comfortable, and if you don't like them, you don't have to use them.

Out west, I have never ridden on a lift with footrests...and I have found safety bars usually found only on detaches or beginner lifts.

[bwilky]

Allot of people think its cool not to put down the safety bar. I don't see why you wouldn't want to.

[liftmech]

It has nothing to do with being cool, I think.

[Lift Dinosaur]

tahoeistruckin, on Dec 7 2007, 04:54 PM, said:

An editoral in todays paper ...

And it's just that...

Dino

[Callao]

SkiLift101, on Dec 23 2007, 10:49 AM, said:

HAHA this is what happens when you do not put the bar down in the east.(click here)

They actually shout instructions from loud speakers! I've never seen that before. Does anybody know where this is?

[SkiLift101]

Callao, on Dec 27 2007, 10:03 PM, said:

They actually shout instructions from loud speakers! I've never seen that before. Does anybody know where this is?

the village lift at smugglers notch in northern vermont...
but yeah thats what they do in vermont, the lift ops are crazy about the safety bar...
i wish they were as liberal about it as they are in the west

This post has been edited by SkiLift101: 28 December 2007 - 12:15 PM

[bwilky]

Callao, on Dec 27 2007, 06:03 PM, said:

They actually shout instructions from loud speakers! I've never seen that before. Does anybody know where this is?

LOL thats Hilarius's. At grouse mountain they just kindly ask everyone to put the bar down.

[skierdude9450]

In states/provinces where it is required by law to put the bar down, is there a required location where you must raise the bar? Can you get in trouble for raising it before the sign? Here in Colorado, maybe 30% of the riders use the safety bar, and those who do raise it sometimes 2-3 towers before the station.