19 replies to this topic

[Peter]

Yeah, some ski areas seem to be stuck on fixed grips. Mt. Baker has now bought 7 fg quads, and they have never built an hsq.

[cascadeparks]

Now correct me if I'm wrong but Mt Baker does not run any lifts on electricity. Could that be a reason for not buying a HSQ?

[SkiBachelor]

That's one reason, although it's possible now with the new types of generators that are out, but they aren't cheap. The other reason is that Mt. Baker likes to have more people on the lift rather than on the slopes or waiting in line since there isn't as much slope congestion.

[Bill]

Mt Bakers reasoning is for slope conjestion.

[Peter]

Yes. Liftmech, you mentioned awhile ago that they are reusing the motor room from Chair 6, is that still the plan?

This post has been edited by Skier: 06 June 2006 - 04:27 PM

[liftmech]

Skier, on Jun 6 2006, 06:26 PM, said:

Yes. Liftmech, you mentioned awhile ago that they are reusing the motor room from Chair 6, is that still the plan?

New plan is to save that for the eventual upgrade of chair 1. That lift has design issues due to the crossover of chair 2, plus the fact that the terrain is all off the upper part past Midstation. Zop actually asked me the other day if I had any ideas, which I haven't. (Those of you who have skied Baker know that all the runs off Pan Dome funnel into Galena Creek, which takes you to Midstation or past it to the bottom of chairs 2 and 3. The bottom terminal of chair 1 really serves no function except to get people up Pan Dome first thing and after lunch.)

[Peter]

Yeah it is a really wierd layout. Chair 1 is a classic, I hope it stays awhile longer.

[liftmech]

It may, if only because of the design problems a new lift will have to overcome. The lift has been extensively upgraded; in the years I worked there we put up all-new line machinery, installed a new main diesel, replaced the old-style short clips with new long ones (the short clips would not pass cable catchers and code now requires them), replaced the carriers twice, and rewired most of the lift. On the plus side- all of the upgrades we did save the carriers can be used elsewhere on the hill since there are three Riblet quads left up there.

If chair one is replaced Baker will have only quads- is that a first?

[liftmech]

Bill, on May 11 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

Mt Bakers reasoning is for slope conjestion.

...and the insane amounts of diesel they would burn to power it, either directly or by running a generator. We once figured, based upon horsepower, that a detachable quad would burn at least 50% more fuel than chair 8, our biggest lift. 8 already goes through around 10,000 gallons per operating season, and we installed an extra 1000-gallon tank in '99 to ensure that an extended season wouldn't catch us short of fuel. Figure 15,000 gallons at a wholesale price of around $3/gallon adds up to $45,000 just for one lift...

[SkiBachelor]

Why doesn't Mt. Baker install some underground utilities line that run to the ski area? I'm sure that the government or utility company and Baker could split the costs. But I presume Baker gets its fuel cheaper than $3 a gallon since there is no road or transportation tax associated with it since these lifts don't travel on the roads.

Anyway, I guess were starting to get now

[SkiBachelor]

There are a few small ski areas that only have quads, but for a ski area of that size I would say yes. However, there is a decent size ski area that only has two detachable quads.

[WBSKI]

Heres my idea for replacing C-1 although I think its really cool!
Add a midstation on C-2 just above the current C-1 midstation.
Then just build a new FG 3 or 4 that does the cliff.

[skiersage]

Here are some thoughts

Since baker has only chair 1 left as a double then they should just put the lift terminal on it as they have no other lifts that will take that double gauge terminal. It would bring the lift somewhat toward todays standards.

If they are having issues with the crossover then they might want to have dopp CTEC add stronger towers to that area.

[Allan]

liftmech, on Jun 8 2006, 12:02 PM, said:

...and the insane amounts of diesel they would burn to power it, either directly or by running a generator. We once figured, based upon horsepower, that a detachable quad would burn at least 50% more fuel than chair 8, our biggest lift. 8 already goes through around 10,000 gallons per operating season, and we installed an extra 1000-gallon tank in '99 to ensure that an extended season wouldn't catch us short of fuel. Figure 15,000 gallons at a wholesale price of around $3/gallon adds up to $45,000 just for one lift...

Sun Peaks was running one of their detachable quads on the standby drive (for a good chunk of the season) due to electric motor failures - apparently it was somewhere in the neighbourhood of 900 litres of diesel a day.

[liftmech]

SkiBachelor, on Jun 8 2006, 04:47 PM, said:

Why doesn't Mt. Baker install some underground utilities line that run to the ski area? I'm sure that the government or utility company and Baker could split the costs. But I presume Baker gets its fuel cheaper than $3 a gallon since there is no road or transportation tax associated with it since these lifts don't travel on the roads.

First question- we explored that possiblity several years ago. You have to remember that the nearest utility lines end 17 miles away down a hellaciously steep and winding road. Overhead lines would have to be used. We were going to go roughly 2/3 to 1/3 with the DOT, which has a maintenance facility at the base of the hill, 8 miles from the ski area. But the state backed out once the final cost figures came out. Baker can't afford to put in power all on its own, so that idea fell through.

Second- have you checked the price of fuel lately? Diesel sells for at least $3.25/gallon retail, so wholesale is probably around $3/gallon. The cheapest I've seen diesel around here is $3.29. You're right about the lack of a tax, though- the mountain has two pumps for diesel, one has 'red' (untaxed) and one has regular #2. The untaxed stuff is dyed so a state inspector could tell you're avoiding the tax if you use it in your vehicle.

In the long run, it will undoubtedly save money if Baker were to install or have installed primary power. It will come with a huge cost, though, converting all lifts to electric drives and motors. There is a great deal of modification that will have to be done. I imagine the tiny mountain power distribution system (220 VAC) will be upgraded as well.

[SkiBachelor]

Mt. Ashland probably has a very similar road as Mt. Bakers, just not as curvy and it has electrical power. However, radio and television towers are up there too so the cost to install those utility lines could have been split three ways between the state, television/radio stations and the ski area. I think that Mt. Baker should get electrical utilities up there soon because the cost for fuel is going up along with the cost of installing utility lines.

[KZ]

The road tax on diesel fuel is 25 cents. So if diesel #2 is $3.25 diesel one (off road) should be $3 at the pump. Wholesale should be closer to $2.50 or 2.75 which is cheaper but still very expensive. Maybe Baker should install some windmills and run their lifts on that green energy. The reliance on the oil (well everything is oil, but with a diesel it is very direct) is risky and can take a huge toll in regular operating costs.

[Peter]

There was an intersting article in SAM a few months ago about how good Mt. Baker is at operating at capacity without stops. Zop has it down to a science.

[liftmech]

Yup. Most of the stops while I worked there were operator error or an actual breakdown, and not loading or unloading related. We kept stop logs for a few years, then Zop and the rest of us would find patterns and try to figure ways to eliminate them. One easy fix was an abnormally high number of emergency stops (attendants were not trained in motor rooms, so us mechanics would have to come over and re-start the diesel engine after an E-stop). We bought pushbutton guards and installed them, and cut E-stops almost entirely.

[cascadeparks]

ya baker does a great job handling lines and keeping the chairlifts running the only lines i waited in was chair 1 at the beginning of the day and chair 2 to head back to heather meadows at the end of the day