17 replies to this topic

[SkiBachelor]

Here's an interesting article about the future of Mt. Waterman Ski Area in California. It appears the forest service wants everything removed by June 2006 and if not, everything will become properity of the United States government. OUCH

http://whittierdaily...news/ci_3594027

[Outback]

SkiBachelor, on Mar 13 2006, 09:54 PM, said:

Here's an interesting article about the future of Mt. Waterman Ski Area in California. It appears the forest service wants everything removed by June 2006 and if not, everything will become properity of the United States government. OUCH

http://whittierdaily...news/ci_3594027

Mt. Waterman is on the rebound again.
Purchase went through for Metcalf and the wheels are starting to turn to refurbish.
This is the resort I started at so I am going to help out.

[lastchair_44]

Interesting story! Keep us updated

[Lift Dinosaur]

Outback, didn't Mr. Newcomb build his own lift back in the dark ages? I seem to remember going by there on my way to Kratka Ridge when I was in college, but it was pretty "smokey" when we went by!

[Outback]

History
Much land in the San Gabriel Mountains was leased from the US Forest Service in 1888 to a master trailblazer and cabin builder by the name of Loise Newcomb. The official name of the hill is Waterman Mountain. Robert B. Waterman, pioneer mountain man and a Ranger in the San Gabriel Forest Reserve. Waterman, together with his wife Liz, and their friend Perry Switzer, completed a three week hike from La Cañada to Antelope Valley and back again (May 1889). With this epic feat, Liz became the first white(non Indian) woman known to have crossed the San Gabriels. Along the way, she placed a cairn on this summit and it was thus christened Lady Waterman's Peak. However, then current attitudes toward the "weaker sex" didn't deem this a fitting name. The peak has subsequently been called by different variants, all of which leave out the "Lady". To his credit Robert Waterman made numerous futile efforts to have the full original name restored.

Humble Beginnings
Lynn Newcomb Sr. and his son Lynn Jr. built the first rope tow at the area in 1939. Mt. Waterman claims to have had the first chairlift in California, opened by the Newcombs on January 1, 1942. The chairlift broke down during the opening day and riders had to jump off, but the resort continued operations.

Lynn Newcomb Jr. who took over the operation when his father passed on, ran the ski area for all but a two-year period when it was sold to to two San Gabriel Valley businessmen in the 1990s. Those new owners returned the resort to Newcomb when their ambitious plans for snowmaking and other improvements at the ski area fell through. Then Lynn who was in his 80s sold Mt. Waterman after being owned by 2 generations of his family.

New Owners
A group of Southern California businessmen lead by Barry Stubblefield of Valencia, followed by his Brother Greg Stubblefield of San Diego and friend Chuck Ojala of Santa Clarita purchased Mount Waterman and neighboring Snowcrest ski area in 1999. They formed an outfit based on Foothill Blvd. in La Canáda by the name of Angeles Crest Resorts(ACR) which as Feb. 2006 is bankrupt, has no phone number and simply is no more.

The resort has not been in operation since July 2001, mostly due to lack of permits and certification to operate the chair lifts. Mt. Waterman has higher natural snowfall (average 180 inches) than most Southern California ski areas and its snow is fairly well preserved by tree shading and steep north exposure. However, the snowfall is very erratic and with no snowmaking the area cannot open at all in dry years like 2001-02 or 2005-06 (so far) even if it had the permits. Mt. Waterman's commercial appeal is also limited by its topography: a nice beginner area up top and abundant steep glades for experts, but very limited terrain for intermediate skiers.

2004-2005 Season
The SoCal region had near record breaking precipitation. Los Angeles nearly broke the record for precipitation. There was so much snow! In Feb. 2005 there was 3-6 Ft. snowpack then Mother Nature dropped 10-12Ft. of powder. This is info. is from the caretaker at Waterman via cell phone. The first snowfall was around Thanksgiving, November 2004 of about 3 1/2 ft. and in early May 2005 there was still a snowpack of about 2 ft. This snowpack rivalled the record El Nino years of 1982-83 and 1997-98 but unfortunately in 2004-05 the area was not open to the public.

Mountain News
The permit for Mount Waterman and Kratka Ridge has been completely revoked, either the current owners must sell or vacate by June 30th 2006 or the lifts could be dismantled and lodge and buildings bulldozed by the US Forest Service. Meanwhile a Forestry worker reported that Lynn Newcomb Jr. has expressed interest in buying Mt. Waterman again including Kratka Ridge. Another local resort, Mountain High, has shown interest in buying the lift stuctures, probably for its new North Resort (Formerly Ski Sunrise at Table Mtn.).

I started my carrer in the ski industry at Mt. Waterman loading lifts on weekends in high school. Summers were spent building lifts at Waterman and other So. Cal. resorts. I met Yan at Mt. Waterman in 1974 one summer day. He and his crew were hired by Lynn to upgrade Chair #2 (homemade) with SLI chairs and assemblies. The following year I went to work for Lift Engineering and have never stopped.
Will keep everyone informed of the progress of the restoration at Mt. Waterman and always looking for good help!

[poloxskier]

Does anyone have any pictures of the lifts(especially the homemade chair) or area either modern or historic?

[SkiBachelor]

There is one Riblet and SLI double there, so nothing that we haven't seen before.

[Skidude]

There are actually two Riblet doubles and one SLI double but they are all pretty standard.

[skiersage]

Here is a picture of chair 2
 284983610uUtJuZ_ph.jpg (68.21K)
Number of downloads: 153
I don't think snow is going to be a problem

[Outback]

poloxskier, on Mar 14 2006, 04:21 PM, said:

Does anyone have any pictures of the lifts(especially the homemade chair) or area either modern or historic?

I will dig in my photo albums and scan some of the old homemade single chair.
I believe that was the picture you were requesting. ????
I also have some pictures building the "new" Riblet in 1973??
The SLI conversion is only SLI sheave trains, chairs and grips.
Original terminals, homemade bullwheels, towers, etc.
Nothing like a typical SLI!
Give me some time to find my archive of photos (probably black & white) cuz I am old as dirt.

[WBSKI]

I see that front face is a problem, its all black runs! And theres only two blue runs, and the rest are mostly green, but you have to get down!

Check out http://www.mtwatermanpatrol.org/

And a pic of the Riblet Chair: http://www.mtwaterma...04/IMGP0014.jpg

This post has been edited by WBSKI: 14 March 2006 - 06:34 PM

[tcs]

I thought that the first rope tow was actually at Newcomb's Ranch (the name of the ski area) which was about five miles southwest. About 1940. ??

TCS

[egieszl]

The link to the article no longer works and for some reason you cannot find it while searching their archives, but after looking long and hard I found the article. Here it is...

Eric

-------

New ownership sought for local ski resort

By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell Staff Writer
Pasadena Star-News

MOUNT WATERMAN - There are no long lines at the lift ticket office, no vehicles parked bumper-to- bumper on Highway 2, no parka-clad skiers and snowboarders hopping onto the chairlift for the ride to the top of the mountain.

The only signs of life at Mount Waterman this ski season are hawks circling above the tall pines, squirrels running across the highway, and a white-haired man, who stands at the base of the lifts looking up at the steep snow-covered mountain face.

But just wait until next season, says 85-year-old Lynn Newcomb, the former owner of the long-closed ski resort.

Newcomb and Rick Metcalf, a Southern California real estate developer and former Waterman skier, are negotiating to buy back the ski resort, which Newcomb sold in 1999 to a group of Southern California businessmen.

"I'm older and shorter now, but I still want to keep a hand in it," Newcomb said Thursday as he walked across the icy base area.

If his plans work out, he and Metcalf hope to improve the facilities, including renovating the resort's small restaurant, located within the warming hut and the ticket office. They also plan to bring up to standard the three chairlifts, which must pass state inspection. But running Mount Waterman again could be as challenging as skiing down the area's steep front face.

Newcomb decided to get back into the ski resort business after he heard that the U.S. Forest Service had revoked the operating permits for Mount Waterman and neighboring Snowcrest, formerly Kratka Ridge.

Under orders from the Forest Service, the current owners must vacate the premises by June or the whole resort could be demolished.

Alarmed by that news, Newcomb con tacted Metcalf, a Del Mar real estate developer and longtime skier, who had expressed an interest in purchasing the ski area.

Newcomb told him there were plans to wipe Waterman out and that something needed to be done, said Metcalf.

"I felt like I wanted to save it because it's such an unbelievable hill and I wanted future generations to enjoy it," Metcalf said.

Jody Noiron, forest supervisor for the Angeles National Forest, confirmed that the Mount Waterman permits were revoked for non-compliance reasons, including a lack of operating permits from the state to operate the chairlifts.

The current owners have until the summer to remove all facilities, including the chairlifts, she said.

If the facilities are not removed by the deadline, they become the property of the U.S. government. But the owners are still responsible for all the costs involved in their removal, she said.

If the owners choose to sell the resort before that time, it will be a private transaction, she added. The Forest Service would get involved again if new owners apply to the agency for special-use permits, she said.

Chuck Ojala, one of the current owners, said there have been negotiations with Metcalf, but no deal has been struck.

"It's in a state of flux with nothing decided on," he said. "All I know is everyone wants to save it because it is a historic Southern California ski site."

The resort dates back to 1939, when Newcomb and his father built the first rope tow at the area, about 34 miles north of La Ca ada Flintridge in the San Gabriel Mountains.

They began operating the first chairlift in Southern California on New Year's Day 1942.

Newcomb remained at the helm of the resort for all but a 2-year period in the early 1990s, when he sold it to two San Gabriel Valley businessmen.

When their ambitious plans for snowmaking and other improvements fell through, the businessmen returned it to Newcomb.

He continued running it until 1999, when a new group of about 11 Southern California businessman purchased it and neighboring Snowcrest.

The new owners formed a company, Angeles Crest Resorts, and also announced big plans to bring change to the resort, including adding 16 to 17 chairlifts, building up the acreage between Waterman and Snowcrest, installing extensive snowmaking and improving the parking areas.

Instead, the resort has not operated since July 2001, mostly because of low snowfall seasons but also because the group did not have operating permits from the state for the chairlifts.

Then in January 2005, Barry Stubblefield, a part owner who was digging out Waterman after a snow storm, died in an accident on the hill. Stubblefield and two ski patrol members were skiing when he fell and tumbled out of control, hitting a tree.

The loss was devastating to the owners, Ojala said, but they still continued their efforts to get the resort running by this winter.

Although they worked last summer to bring the chairlifts into compliance, the effort was not enough to satisfy the Forest Service, he said.

"It's been hard," said Ojala. "We wanted to bring snow play to Snowcrest and snowmaking to Waterman, but it always seemed like the Forest Service was changing the rules and couldn't make up their minds."

[Peter]

Mount Waterman ski area gets ready for revival

By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell

Staff Writer

LA CA ADA FLINTRIDGE - The long-closed and historic Mount Waterman ski area in the San Gabriel Mountains has been purchased by Newport Beach real estate developer Rick Metcalf, U.S. Forest Service officials said.

Metcalf, who also has purchased the neighboring Kratka Ridge ski area - both in June from former owner Greg Stubblefield - now has a pending permit application to open Mount Waterman by Thanksgiving, said Shawn Lawler, a special-use permit administrator for the Forest Service.

"I grew up my whole life in La Ca ada Flintridge, and after taking a school ski trip to Waterman in seventh grade, I ended up skiing there hundreds of times," Metcalf said Saturday. "When I found out the Forest Service was going to mow it down, I decided I just could not let that happen."

He said he plans to have three chairlifts operating there by this winter. He also has plans to renovate the resort's warming huts and restrooms and add a new kitchen and deck from which visitors can enjoy the scenery.

"There is a magic to this place and I want to make it like the place I remember from my youth - only better," Metcalf said. "As far as I'm concerned, it will never be closed again."

Lynn Newcomb - who founded Mount Waterman, has followed developments there and has known Metcalf for a number of years - said he was pleased to be working as a consultant on Metcalf's planned revival of the ski area.

"The sale has been made, and the plan is to get everything that has just been sitting there running again," he said.

According to Newcomb, Metcalf wants to hire employees who, like himself, grew up skiing at Waterman, which is off the Angeles Crest Highway - also known as Highway 2 - in the San Gabriel Mountains.

"It looks like we will be bringing back people who really know Waterman," he said.

Kratka Ridge will eventually become a play area, Newcomb said, but it likely will not open during the 2006-07 ski season.

If Metcalf succeeds, it will be the first time Mount Waterman will open as a ski area since July 2001, when it was forced to close because the owners did not have operating permits from the state to run the chairlifts.

Other complications surfaced after Barry Stubblefield, the owner's brother and a Mount Waterman co-owner, died in January 2005 when he hit a tree while skiing at the resort.

Stubblefield's death was devastating to the owners, said Newcomb.

Mount Waterman opened in 1939, when Newcomb and his father built the first rope tow on the slopes. They began operating Southern California's first chairlift there on New Year's Day, 1942.

Newcomb operated the resort for all but a two-year period in the early 1990s, when he sold it two San Gabriel Valley businessmen. When their plans for snowmaking and other improvements fell through, the businessmen returned it to Newcomb.

He continued running Mount Waterman until 1999, when a group of businessmen - who included the Stubblefields - purchased it and Kratka.

Now, once again, Newcomb has a hand in Mount Waterman.

"I'm absolutely happy that we are putting things together again," he said.

[Skidude]

I was just looking in wikipedia the other day and found a link to the website for Mt. Waterman. It is http://www.skiwaterman.com. The website says that the ski area might be opening on Friday, Febuary 1.

[cjb]

I have never skied there but did some work for them in the summer/fall of 2006. The area itself is pretty impressive, very steep with alot of great terrain. That may not be a good thing though. Most of the so-cal market is a pretty intermediate market. I don't know if there is enough of the 'elite skier' market to support the resort. Also with out snowmaking the resort may only open 2 or 3 years out of every 5, and without elec service, generators will be required for snowmaking etc... There lifts are already diesel drives, and a generator serves the lodge but sowmaking takes alot of power. They are also starting from scratch with grooming equipment, good luck to them though. If it was ever possible to get away from here for a day or two I would go there to ride.

[Skidude]

I actually just went skiing at Mt. Waterman today and it was really fun. The ski area opened for Presidents' Day weekend for the first time in five years. They currently have only two of the three chairs open but all of the runs except one are open. The lower part of the mountain is all advanced rated runs. I don't think I saw a pitch under 20 degrees on that part of the mountain. The upper part is mostly beginner and intermediate terrain with a few advanced runs. You had to hike to the upper advanced runs because the lift to them wasn't open. The skiing experience is very different from any of the other resorts in Soutnern California, but if I had to compare it to one I would say it is closest to Mt. Baldy in terms of difficulty and snow quality.

There are virtually no lines at all on the mountain, even on a Saturday. There is no actual parking lot, just a corner that is about four times the size of a normal one. You just park off to the side of the road, but you need an adventure pass or you will get a ticket. One other thing to think about: the lifts at the resort all run at the speed of a normal beginner lift or possibly slower.

[mikest2]

From today's LA Times

The revival of Mt. Waterman

The family-run ski resort, which reopened last year after a six-season closure, has a small-town feel, and that's the way regulars like it.

By Tiffany Hsu
March 12, 2009

At Mt. Waterman ski and snowboard park, the vintage two-seater chairlifts are a bit on the rickety side, and equipment pokes through the snow near a huddle of no-frills buildings and plastic picnic tables scattered halfway up the slope.

With none of the chaotic cacophony of larger resorts, the isolation is punctuated only by the soft swish of skis, the occasional darting flash of a boarder through the trees, the snow melting into the sky.
And that's how the regulars like it.

"It's more of a local resort, with a small-town feel," said Rick Metcalf, who bought Mt. Waterman three years ago with his brother, Brien, and reopened it last year after a six-season closure. "We already have plenty of people coming here, and we don't have grander plans to turn it into a big, major place."

Southern California ski resorts have weathered the recession better than those elsewhere in the state, said Bob Roberts, executive director of the California Ski Industry Assn.

The proximity of the San Gabriel and San Bernardino mountains makes area resorts cheaper than parks that require visitors to fly in and stay in hotels, he said.

"Generally speaking, good snow conditions and proximity will trump a bad economy, like bowling and movies during the Depression," Roberts said.

In an industry dominated by corporate-owned operations such as Big Bear Mountain Resorts and Mammoth Mountain, Mt. Waterman is part of a shrinking breed of small, family-run resorts.

Its owners -- jovial Brien, 46, and Rick Metcalf, 45, a hulking man in a black Mt. Waterman cap -- work in real estate in the San Diego area. Brien is a coastal property specialist; Rick is part-owner of a mortgage brokerage.

The pair grew up in La Cañada Flintridge and skied at Waterman as children. Now, armed with a public ski resort operating permit from the U.S. Forest Service, they commute up on weekends to sell tickets or dig chairlifts out of snow.

The Metcalfs used much of their own money to buy the resort for an undisclosed sum. And although they have no debt, they have yet to recoup their investment, Rick said.

Between maintenance, operating licenses and renewed chairlift permits, running Waterman can get expensive. A percentage of ticket sales goes to Wells Fargo to pay the resort's liability insurance.

In the 2008 season, when the mountain was open for only nine days, the resort's revenue was less than 5% of the cost of purchasing the land, Brien Metcalf said. This year, the park might be open for 20 days, drawing an average of 300 visitors a day.

"I joke that it costs me $1,500 to come to work," he said. "It's been a huge undertaking and sometimes we've flown by the seat of our pants."

For now, Waterman is earning enough for managers to start planning. The Metcalfs are hashing out permits, marketing and the higher insurance premiums associated with opening biking trails and are also negotiating with local companies to host retreats, benefits and even weddings.

Often in a recession, small-scale, family-owned companies maintain the upper hand over larger operations, said Thomas J. O'Malia, director of USC's Lloyd Greif Center for Entrepreneurial Studies. Relatives volunteer time to save labor costs, and the pressures of unions and regulatory agencies often don't apply.

"Smaller businesses are more agile," O'Malia said. "Often, they're the low-cost provider with better service."

Waterman offers relatively cheap lift tickets at $200 for a season pass or $45 for a day pass. Adult lift tickets to Big Bear Mountain Resorts, which comprises Snow Summit and Bear Mountain, cost $66 for peak weekends and holidays; a season pass goes for $599.

But Waterman has no snow-making equipment. "It's a big expense," Rick Metcalf said. So even though it is well shaded by trees and faces north, away from the sun, erratic snowfall means the resort can't guarantee regular seasons.

"The snow-making, which became de rigueur in California 15 years ago, has always been the Achilles' heel of Waterman," said Roberts of the ski association. "The bigger resorts have flourished because they have equipment."

Waterman also doesn't stock rentals, and 80% of the trails are advanced or intermediate, making it less friendly to beginners. The park operates only on weekends, but Rick Metcalf says managers are considering opening on weekdays.

"People here go to the other resorts too, but more are realizing we're back," he said. "We're closer, so people don't burn as much gas coming, and with fewer crowds, there aren't traffic jams going home."

An hour past opening one recent Saturday, the slopes already were latticed with slicing lines as snowboarders zoomed down. Cashiers in the ticket trailer yelled over the churning gurgle of the lift, which operators slowed for children.

Since the reopening, Stephen Glaab, 43, has visited nearly a dozen times. The Moorpark relocation sales agent said he "grew up" at Waterman and was a ski instructor there in the late 1980s.

He loves the terrain, although there's no naked expanse of bunny slope for his son Alex, 12. Instead, trees and rocks poke through fluffy piles of powder.

"Other resorts bring L.A. up to the mountain, but here, it's just mountain people," Glaab said. "I don't need the zoo."

In 1939, adventurer Lynn Newcomb Sr. built the resort's first rope tow, then set up one of the state's first chairlifts in 1942. It promptly broke down, forcing riders to jump off.

His son, Lynn Newcomb Jr., sold Waterman in 1999 to a group of local businessmen. Ambitious plans, including newer facilities and snow-making, were stymied by years of lackluster snowfall, problems acquiring operating permits and slim cash flow.

In 2006, Mt. Waterman seemed doomed: The California Department of Forestry planned to restore the steep glades to their natural state. The day before the master permit was to expire, the Metcalfs bought the resort. Later, three friends joined as investors.

The Metcalfs also own the closed Kratka Ridge ski area nearby but "don't have the time or resources for it, so it's staying in limbo," Brien said.

They spent more than $1 million getting Waterman back up to par, carting off 40 massive containers of trash and load-testing the lifts. They bought new snowmobiles and grooming machines and replaced rotted wood on the buildings. The Metcalfs say they're ready for a long stay.

"It's gone pretty smoothly, considering that there's no 'Snowboarding for Dummies' book," Rick said. "There are a lot of moving parts."

Bob Levin, chief financial officer at Harvard-Westlake School, has been skiing at Waterman since he stumbled on the resort 28 years ago. A road blockage kept him from getting to Mountain High Resort, so he settled for what looked like a "pathetic little ski area."

Waterman has since grown on the Sherman Oaks resident.

"I've skied all over, and this is the best terrain," Levin said. "It doesn't get any better on planet Earth."

tiffany.hsu@latimes.com

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wate...4741,full.story