47 replies to this topic

[Powdr]

Haven't been here since ski season started (too busy skiing to post), and I'm sure this has been discussed here in another thread, but here goes:

WHAT IS UP W/ CTEC 6-PACKS?????????

- In 2005, Silverload goes down w/ a gear box failure (install 1996)
- In 2006, Bonanza goes down w/ a gear box failure (install 1997)
- Today, Payday goes down - you guessed it, gear box failure (install 1997)

See the pattern? McConkeys was installed in 1998. How much you wanna bet that it goes down next year?

If I was PCMR, I'd sue the fricken pants off CTEC, or maybe get a deep discount on the next few lifts they install there.

Care to comment?

Powdr

[poloxskier]

To me that sounds like that might be more of a maintnance problem but maybe some the lift mechanics could probably shed some light on if this may be a CTEC problem. I heard that Telluride recently replaced one of their CTECs gearboxes but that was on a 20 year old lift.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 05 March 2006 - 03:26 PM

[Powdr]

I'm told it's not maintenance related. Problems were in the sealed gear boxes on all three lifts. Sounds more like an engineering or machining flaw to me.

Here's a pic of the evac:
 img071.jpg (134.29K)
Number of downloads: 155

Powdr

This post has been edited by Powdr: 05 March 2006 - 03:36 PM

[ccslider]

You know, I like the CTEC lifts, but over the years there appears to be a pattern of gearbox events that point towards the engineering being a bit light. It's funny though because the rest of their lift design is bomber so it make you wonder why they would be a little under the curve with this all important lift component.

poloxskier, on Mar 5 2006, 04:24 PM, said:

I heard that Telluride recently replaced one of their CTECs gearboxes but that was on a 20 year old lift.

Yes and last summer's work was not the first time that Tride has dealt with gearbox issues on the "85 vintage triple fixed grip machines (they have 2 of them).

[Shawn]

It's kind of a Kissling problem not a CTEC problem from what I understand.( Just my 2 cents on the matter.)

[poloxskier]

boybud, on Mar 5 2006, 03:38 PM, said:

It's kind of a Kissling problem not a CTEC problem from what I understand.( Just my 2 cents on the matter.)

Thats true I didnt know the maker of CTECs gearboxes. So I guess that if it was a manufacturing or enginering issue than it would be the maker of the gearbox rather than CTEC.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 05 March 2006 - 05:24 PM

[SkiBachelor]

I'm with Boybud with it being a Kissling problem rather than Garaventa CTEC.

[floridaskier]

They must not be angry at CTEC about it, since they went ahead and bought the new First Time from CTEC. Maybe CTEC will go for another gearbox manufacturer on six packs from now on. I've never heard of this problem on the Park City area's 14 CTEC quads, but the six packs have had more than their fair share of rope evacs in the last couple years

Has McConkey's been closed too? I thought when Silverlode went out last year, they took the parts they needed out of McConkey's and left it closed until new parts arrived. I wonder if they did the same thing this time. It wouldn't matter too much if McConkey's broke down, not too many people goes there and the six pack is the biggest overkill in the history of lifts. Not to go off-topic, but I wonder if they had a DV interconnect in mind when they built McConkey's.

I can't imagine how long it would take to rope evac a fully loaded Payday...but that's what they train for. They've had way too much practice evacuating six packs already

[vons]

I think that now after the merger with dopp that they use lohmann gear boxes

[SkiBachelor]

Does Doppelmayr own Lohmann or is there just a strong partnership between the two companies? The reason why I'm wondering is because I was looking at one of the World Books and it said something about using the Doppelmayr Lohmann gearbox or something like that I believe.

[KZ]

That is a bit strange. I don't know too much about gearboxes, but it could be that these gearboxes were designed for hsq's or motors of a bit less horsepower. The 6-packs have to pack quite a punch in the motor end, so maybe when kissling designed the box they only beefed up a few parts. I really wouldn't be suprised if it was some small sort of connecting rod that was only a millimeter too thin that could have cause the failures. In any case I would be curious to know what has really caused the problems. Seems like Park City should get a new gearbox ready for their last lift. It never hurts to have a spare.

[vons]

doppelmayr has a strong partnership with lohmann much like poma does with kissling

[chasl]

As I understand it, in the last few years a new generation of owners came into the picture at Kissling. In Doppelmayrs eyes the lead time for and quality of the equipment now coming from Kissling was not what Doppelmayr wanted. As they had been using Lohmann on occasions and liked the box, They decided to form a strong partnership.
With this in mind, I will agree with boybud on this one.
One may ask as to why if this is the case and the quality of the box's coming out of Kissling is low (I do feel this will change) why is Poma not having problems, As vons stated Poma has a partnership with Kissling and like Doppelmayr with Lohmann they have a say in design and quality of the box's that they have their name on.

[Lift Dinosaur]

boybud, on Mar 5 2006, 05:38 PM, said:

It's kind of a Kissling problem not a CTEC problem from what I understand.( Just my 2 cents on the matter.)

I agree that it may be a Kissling gearbox problem, but the perception is that it is a CTEC Six-Pack problem because CTEC chose to use that gearbox. It could also be that in the 6-pack arrangement the box has been taken too close to the upper limit of its capacity. SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC - like the problems with YAN 250's and 475's discussed elsewhere that were taken to their limits.

[lastchair_44]

I think I posted it somewhere else, but maybe it's not totally kissling's fault..I think this is the wrong hub/gearbox for a 6 pack application. Also...I think DoppelTec was using Sumitomo gearboxes at first. I think that's what we have in Silver Strike, but we have a Lohman in the new Sultan...cat d-11 hub

-I was mistaken..Sultan also has a Sumitomo gearbox in it. I think I read in the manual that it had a Lohman so maybe it's an option to either go with Sumitomo or Lohman.

[old school]

I think Jim may be on to something. Those carriers weigh a half-ton apiece unloaded and a ton apiece loaded. The hub and gearbox are the same as is used in detach quads....I am thinking that Kissling has some questions to answer. I know Ctec will do the stand-up thing in helping PCMR make things.

[Peter]

From the PCMR Blog:

March 07, 2006
Payday Update
As I write this the bull wheel/planetary assembly from Payday is being loaded on a truck in our First Time parking lot. It will be taken to Doppelmayr/CTEC in Salt Lake where we will do the repairs. The parts from McConkeys have been installed in Payday and the boys are installing the rope. We are still on schedule for a Wednesday opening of Payday, if all continues to go well.

The planetary I refer to is attached to the bull wheel and you will see the rotating end of it at the top of the lift. The soffit hides the bull wheel but the planetary actually extends through the soffit. The one on Silverlode last year had a ring gear inside it that had broken, which caused the main housing to crack and deform. The planetary from Payday hasn't been opened up yet but the housing is cracked. This leads us to believe it is a repeat of the Silverlode problem. This planetary was opened up last summer and non destructive testing (NDT) was done on the parts inside. There were no problems and that makes this failure even more perplexing.

McConkeys: two complete assemblies of the planetary have been located in Europe. They are both different configurations than ours but we could use the parts from both to get ours back up. These planetarys have been manufactured for other customers. We hope these customers are willing to help us out.

Our lift maintenance crew gets our highest praise for the professional job they do each and every day. When we have a failure such as this they shine even brighter. It can be so disheartening for them when they have done everything in their power to keep our lifts running and then have failures of this type that are beyond their control.

This post has been edited by Skier: 07 March 2006 - 08:45 PM

[Jonni]

Kudos to the Lift Maintenance department at PCMR, 3 days to relocate a bullwheel/planetary gear is quite a short amount of time. I'm sure these boys have been spending some extremely long days and night working on this problem. Good Job guys!

[lastchair_44]

Wow! Shout out to those guys! That shows how dedicated their team is to the work they do.

[johnny j]

Hey Great Job to the PCMR Lift Maint. team, that was not an easy task. Good work and I hope all goes well for the rest of the winter for you.