6 replies to this topic

[CarefulRider]

I have skied at the local hill for about 30 years, and worked briefly running lifts at another mountain prior to coming here. Once I was able to assist in spring maintenance on the work chair, stopping under the sheave trains for greasing the wheels and the axel beams?, Sorry It was a long time ago. Anyway, I might have a tiny bit of an idea how things run smoothly on a lift and probably can tell the difference between tire noise and a bad bearing.

Our mountain has recently undergone some administrative and financial changes which may be starting to compromise safety, and raises the issue of procedure for complaints.

First, about 2 years ago we rode a detachable quad and found that the sheave train on the downhill side of one of the towers was making a loud bang - bang as the grips went over the two wheels. We skied down to the tower and found that the rope had ridden up on the inside of the sheave train, the tires were shreading apart and the grips were hitting the inside rim of the two sheave wheels. We were able to alert the engineers who came to the site immediately, while we went home immediately, sickened by what we had witnessed.

I spoke with the ski hill CEO, the hill lifts manager and the Forest Service persons in charge of their special use permit regarding this incident.
I was treated as a disgruntled customer rather than a frightened skier. When pressed, the CEO eventually said I could turn in my pass if I didn't like the way they ran the place.

Second, last Sunday Feb 19, 2006 - a very busy day. We're going up a fixed grip quad when we come to an uphill sheave train where the leading wheel has lost it's bearings and is tipping back and forth about a half inch and making a grinding noise. We told the attendant at the top where the response was "So, What am I supposed to do?".

I have reported this to the authorities above mentioned, with similar results. Am I being paranoid? This fixed grip quad is on private land, so the Forest Service is not interested.

Can someone suggest a remedy? We don't have much of a state tramway board here, and their Forest Service special use permit runs 'til 2024. I don't want them to confiscate my pricey season pass for complaining so much, though I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it.

Thanks, I hope this is not too lengthy.

I welcome direct E-Mail on this subject.

[kwoodsparky]

Being in this business a long time I do not feel you are "complaining too much". This could be a very dangerous situation. Did you tell anyone else at the area about it? My experiance is that lift operators are not trained enough to even know who to call in case of problems like this. Most of the time we are lucky that they speak english.
You did not mention what state you are in, but even if there is not much of a Tram board some one may be able to help you.
I would think any area would want to take care of a problem like this before a derail situation occurs and some one gets hurt or worse!

[Kelly]

After reading your post I have a few thoughts – not in any order of importance.

Some clarification on your provided information -
Is the area on public and private land?
You mention "our mountain" is this some kind of quasi ownership that you have with the area such as a "property owners pass" that some of the private ski areas tout - perhaps a ski area in Montana?
Was the "fixed quad" sheave bearing investigated by a lift mechanic?
So what did the operator do when they were told of the bad bearing?

Ok back to some of my thoughts and exploring some solutions.
In my book you get the "Public Rider of the Year Award" for your actions you took to alert the management and mechanics of the tower misalignment and developing sheave bearing failure. As you can well imagine an inside derailment on a detachable lift always ends on a sad note.

I am not surprised at the attitude/role the Forest Service has taken. The current and past political climate has reduced their funding enough to eliminate them solely to the role of fee takers.

Your description of the Murphy's Law manager treatment you were subject to again vindicates my viewpoint about this level of management (this is an insider joke from the industry section of this forum see this link: http://www.skilifts....?showtopic=3618 ).
The idiot should have given you a fist full of comp tickets, instead he choose to become defensive.

Unless you saw each component failure evolve throughout the day, the lack of any midday inspection is a possibility but is most likely a "who knows exercise". Perhaps a lack of overall maintenance in one particular season occurred but this is still a stretch as these situations occasionally develop at the best areas. The same holds true of change of management vs. deteriorating maintenance theories unless you have some other indicators. See below.

Some solutions – I suggest using all
#1 If some lifts of this ski area are under a permit as you state I would request the ski areas liability insurance carriers' name through the Forest Service. Remember you're dealing with a federal bureaucracy - dated letters, pertinent information, registered mail, and follow-up letters are the norm.
Forget about using the insurance carrier as a threatening device towards the management, they have already shown you their thick skin and lack of tack so this would be a waste of time. You want to go directly to the insurance carrier with your concerns, again dated letters etc. This may seem like a roundabout way of alerting somebody but believe me eventually your concerns we be presented to the management by an entity they will respect.

#2 Research who is the "hottest" looking lift operator and her days on.
Study up on heavy duty tools and lift technical terms in this web site.
Familiarize yourself with cold weather work clothes and welding rod selection.
Identify and locate midlevel management junior ceo type (best recognized by newest trendy jacket with upturned collar and latest ski school gloves) – plan event mentioned below on his day off.
Purchase some midlevel work boots and worn cold weather clothes.
Do not wear your ski outfit for two reasons – #1 grease is plentiful in a Lift Maintenance shop and it might be applied ah uumm… inadvertently to those $620 bibs - #2 Lift Mechanics can spot a phony guy faster than an empty promise of overtime after 40.
Invite hot lift operator and her roommates to free beer party – you might have to be ingenious at this point, perhaps promise her to fix her crappy rental apartment or baby sit her 4 year old child some other day.
Eat large meal to absorb any interesting liquids you might ingest – see below.
Buy 4 cases of upper end beer and 12 bags of various chips and "donate" it to the Lift Maintenance Department. Ask if they wouldn’t mind if you "hungout" and had a few of your own cheep beers while they drank the good stuff. *Caution* Do not approach the upper management before or after this solution.

#3 Post the ski area name, management names, Forest Service contact names and lift names in this forum.

#4 Repeat solution #2 at monthly intervals that "coincide" with paydays.

[Shawn]

Have they since fixed the problems?

[Vermont]

CarefulRider, on Feb 22 2006, 11:15 AM, said:

I have skied at the local hill for about 30 years, and worked briefly running lifts at another mountain prior to coming here. Once I was able to assist in spring maintenance on the work chair, stopping under the sheave trains for greasing the wheels and the axel beams?, Sorry It was a long time ago. Anyway, I might have a tiny bit of an idea how things run smoothly on a lift and probably can tell the difference between tire noise and a bad bearing.

Our mountain has recently undergone some administrative and financial changes which may be starting to compromise safety, and raises the issue of procedure for complaints.

First, about 2 years ago we rode a detachable quad and found that the sheave train on the downhill side of one of the towers was making a loud bang - bang as the grips went over the two wheels. We skied down to the tower and found that the rope had ridden up on the inside of the sheave train, the tires were shreading apart and the grips were hitting the inside rim of the two sheave wheels. We were able to alert the engineers who came to the site immediately, while we went home immediately, sickened by what we had witnessed.

I spoke with the ski hill CEO, the hill lifts manager and the Forest Service persons in charge of their special use permit regarding this incident.
I was treated as a disgruntled customer rather than a frightened skier. When pressed, the CEO eventually said I could turn in my pass if I didn't like the way they ran the place.

Second, last Sunday Feb 19, 2006 - a very busy day. We're going up a fixed grip quad when we come to an uphill sheave train where the leading wheel has lost it's bearings and is tipping back and forth about a half inch and making a grinding noise. We told the attendant at the top where the response was "So, What am I supposed to do?".

I have reported this to the authorities above mentioned, with similar results. Am I being paranoid? This fixed grip quad is on private land, so the Forest Service is not interested.

Can someone suggest a remedy? We don't have much of a state tramway board here, and their Forest Service special use permit runs 'til 2024. I don't want them to confiscate my pricey season pass for complaining so much, though I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it.

Thanks, I hope this is not too lengthy.

I welcome direct E-Mail on this subject.

If this particular ski area is not concerened with these problems it makes me wonder what else they are overlooking! Both of these problems needed attention pretty quickly! I know at my resort the complaint would have been addressed immediately. Even if the complaint did make it to the forest service rep. he would have been all over it, not to mention the state lift inspector! You shouldn't be as concerened about your pricey lift pass as you should be about your own personal safety!!

[Yaoma]

notify the media

[towertop]

It's not Sunrise is it? Some places can get away with thing and yes it is scarey. For example, if a ski area is on it's own land, self insured, has no state agency.... who looks! Who cares, not them. If there isn't enough money to fix somthing, well you got it. It dosen't get fixed! And when your lift maintenance staff has no clue. You get the picture. You as public should notify your media, government, anyone who will listen. Because when the bottom line drops (money, ticket sales) Maybe someone will do somthing. Untill then, buy a pair of skins and go backcountry!