38 replies to this topic

[ftr]

So i have found this posting at www.epicski.com in the general skiing forum.
Sorry for the long read. There are two pages of replies. 99% telling the kid how stupid he was.
Member Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 343

Thoughts Wanted: Especially Patrollers.

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Warning! The below post is my opinion, but I am not seeking excuse or validation for my actions. I know they were wrong, but I also feel that the situation was handled poorly. I am seeking your feedback as to whether or not these feelings are justified. If I'm totally off the map, flame away. I did something dumb, and I deserve whatever came my way. But if I've been mistreated, or even had some right violated, I'd also like to know how to avoid being bullied in the future.

So, for the first time since I've started skiing, (4 years) my resort in TN of all places, has snow. LOTS of snow. 12 fresh inches. So, after school, my sister and I undertook the weekly pilgrimage up to ski.

Place is PACKED, and the lift stops for 10 minutes when I am literally 45 feet out of the lift house on my first run. Halfway up the hill, it stops again, for another 5 minutes. So, after an 18-20 minute ride over what should have been 3, I finally unload for first run. Continue skiing for a while, and then after about 8-10 runs, get back on the lift, only to have the same situation arise AGAIN. This time, there is 18 inches of off piste (not suppose to be ski able EVER) powder 4 feet under my chair. I sit and fume for 8 minutes before I get tired of waiting on the lift to start again. And jump.

Something you must understand about our lifts. There are 2 of them currently in operation, serving 5 open slopes. My resort is a tourist trap. Dumb people attempt to load these lifts all the time, and constantly fall. A 1-2 minute stop is not unusual. A 5-8 minute stop is HIGHLY unusual. Especially 3 of them.
EDIT: I spoke with a friend (older, wiser, and more responsible than myself) today, he told me that the lifts were not stopping because people were falling in the loading/unloading area, but because the drive motors were overheating. He was standing in the line which built up and asked the liftie, who informed him of what was going on.

Back to story. After the third 8 minute stop of the night, I jump off of the lift, hike a few feet, jump back in my skis, ride 100 or so feet through the most incredible powder ever, and back onto the piste. I ski to the bottom of the hill, and load the beginner lift after observing that the advanced lift is still stalled out. Take one run on the bunny hill, and start back towards the advanced loading area, as that lift is back in motion. Halfway down to the loading point, I hear.

"Hey! Get over here!"

Crap. Patrol.

Patrol: "Take your skis off and come with me. We're taking a walk."

Me: "Yes sir."

Patrol: "You know why I stopped you?"

Me: "Because I jumped off of the lift."

Patrol: "That's right. You could have gotten me and everybody else on that lift killed, not to mention yourself. Are you aware that jumping from the lift can derail the cable and cause massive lift failure? You're gone for the night, but we're taking a walk over to operation first."

Me: "Yes sir."

Patrol: "Are you a season passholder?"

Me "No sir."

We proceed in the direction of operation.

Me: "Do you mind if I put my cat tracks on? I try to take good care of my boots."

Patrol: "You don't have far to walk. They'll be fine."

So, I'm taken over to operation, told basically that I can either A: leave the hill and not come back ever, or B: watch a 25 minute safety video and stay off of the hill for a week. Either way, if I'm seen during that time, "The police will be called." After that, my information, student ID, and driver's license are taken, copied, scanned, and then returned to me.

At this point, patrol cuts my tags.

Patrol, remarking about my collection of old lift tickets as he cuts every single one off of, gloves, pants, and jacket: "Man, you've got these things all over. Won't be needing them for a while."

After this, he carries on a short, loud conversation with the 2 operation secretaries explaining, about me, that "'This' is the first one, and everybody followed 'him' and that he was off to find 'the other ones.'"

So, I sit down to watch the video, which turns out to be a 20 minute ad for the resort, explaining their aerial tramway, rental process, lesson policy, rental check-in/check-out policy, and a 5 minute segment on the responsibility code.

The secretaries come in at the end and start making fun of the whole thing, and I struck up a conversation with them.

Me: "Hey, I understand that I did something wrong, and that I put a lot of people at risk, but thanks for having a sense of humor about the whole thing."

Secretary in charge: "Well, it's like this, you come in here, you're compliant, you know that you did something wrong in a fit of bad judgement, so we're inclined to work with you. We get a lot of people with attitude through here, and we don't work with them."

Me: "Sorry for the trouble."

Secretary: "No trouble. See you in a week."

So, to reiterate, I did something wrong in a fit of Tennessee Powder Madness.

But does that excuse the fact that the patroller was a total A**? Was he an A**? Am I overly defensive? I've been skiing for 4 years. I have NEVER had a run in with patrol before today. I once got a quick "please don't do that" and a pat on the back for spraying a slow skiing sign. That's it.

What about resort management? Is it fair to the advanced and expert skiers that the ski patrol doesn't crack down on beginners riding the chairlift that is completely beyond their ability?

Does patrol have the authority to remove obviously incapable people from the lift line? Because they're not.

Or does it all just come down to the almighty dollar, and the fact that I pay $15 a week to ski there, and the average tourist pays $50 a day? Because I'd love to see some out of control tourists get throw off the hill. Never happens. I witness a minimum of 50 out of control skiers every day I'm skiing there. No enforcement policy. Nothing is done until they hit someone and it is reported.

Another thing that bugs me is that they caught a total of 6 people. None of us were advised as to why our information was taken, or if we had legal right to refuse to give it to them. One guy left without seeing the video because he "Couldn't come back for the rest of the season anyway." Totally nonstandard enforcement policies.

Those of you who know me from my posts, and the one of you that I have skied with know that I am a responsible skier who got into skiing the right way, knows the code, and respects others. I know how the hill should work. I violated a rule. I should expect to get punished, but given the circumstances, was I treated with the respect due me? Be that amount of respect high or low.

Patrollers, would you want this guy in your squad?

[aug]

This sounds about right. Although I would have called the sheriff and pressed charges of wreckless endangerment . That would be a criminal offense in Oregon. Yes I take jumpers very seriously. Consider him lucky that he did not end up handcuffed and riding to the county seat in the back of a police car!
The patroler was not being an ass. He was doing his job and yes I would love to have him on our team.

This post has been edited by aug: 15 February 2006 - 05:19 PM

[SkiBachelor]

My dad has fallen/jumped a few times while being on a chairlift. Once he was on the Red chair at Mt. Bachelor and one of his friends patted him on the back while he was tighting up his ski boot while he was bent over and the other time was when the chairlift broke down and my dad got sick of waiting after 40 minutes in really nasty weather (high winds and like 5 below). I have never jumped off a lift although I have seen a few people do it from the Peak 2 lift at Willamette Pass.

[poloxskier]

aug, on Feb 15 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

This sounds about right. Although I would have called the sheriff and pressed charges of wreckless endangerment . That would be a criminal offense in Oregon. Yes I take jumpers very seriously. Consider him lucky that he did not end up handcuffed and riding to the county seat in the back of a police car!
The patroler was not being an ass. He was doing his job and yes I would love to have him on our team.

I agree, there have recently been quite a few people hauled off by the summit county sheriff for violating trail closures, skiing out of control, and a few for jumping off of lifts. There also is a bill before the state legislature in Colorado to raise fines for on mountain violations.

[pilotdude565]

how did you not get hurt from falling of the lift? or were you close enough to the ground?

[mtbphoto]

Can you really derails a lift from jumping off? at my local mountain (mountain high, ca) people do it all the time, its not a far jump, but its not a detachable lift either

[aug]

Under the right conditions sure the lift can derail . When someone jumps off the unweighting of the haul rope can induce a bounce in the haul rope . Some times when someone is bouncing the chair intentionally you can actually see the rope losing contact with the sheaves . If the lift derails and the derailed tower is inaccessable it can lead to alot of people being inconvienenced and possibly being rope evaced off the lift . On most lifts fixing a derail is a big pain in the ass . Especially when some inconsiderate soul who jumped off caused the derail in the first place. I have a saying " if you are climbing towers in the winter , you didn't do your job last summer " Please don't make us(practicing lift techs.) climb towers in the winter by making stupid decisions like jumping off of the lift where you are not supposed to .

[liftmech]

aug, on Feb 18 2006, 08:02 PM, said:

I have a saying " if you are climbing towers in the winter , you didn't do your job last summer " Please don't make us(practicing lift techs.) climb towers in the winter by making stupid decisions like jumping off of the lift where you are not supposed to .

I'll second that one. In most cases the person who jumps off the lift has no idea what can happen, but for those reading this topic please don't try it.
Somewhat related- we have signs on tower 2 of all lifts stating that 'In the event of a lift malfunction, do not jump. Patrol will assist you off the lift.'

[floridaskier]

I've never seen those before. Usually it's just 'Do not swing or bounce chairs' or something to that effect

[Kelly]

I agree with the other lift mechanics posts – in particular aug's post is very poignant.
I have seen 3 different types lift manufacturers derail from jumping riders.
From an industry view point the stopping system works pretty well most of the time in a derailment.
The probability for lift damage is quite high even if everything stops as designed from a derailment.
The possibility of rider injury is also quite high if you're near (that means one chair away) from a derailment.
Stories like this remind me why they have "Jackass" videos for sale.
Notice the terms "pretty well" "most of the time" "if" are not exact.

Happy Landings,
Ryan B

[aug]

They are back , jumping off of the lift again this season , What is the answer? . Higher lift towers , punji sticks, restraining devices such as the ones on roller coasters, signs are helpfull but I think the signs give them the idea if they were not already thinking about it . Stake outs are effective but I have better things to do with my time at work than hiding in the woods and getting cold feet. " I'll get you dorothy and your little dog too" ( Wizard of Oz)

[lastchair_44]

Hey...the guy has been skiing for 4 whole years!! He obviously knows everything there is to know...plus the HR girls dug him. What a putz

[skierdude]

HE WAS LUCKY THEY LET HIM RETURN TO THE RESORT A WEEK LATER INSTED OF NEXT YEAR OR NEVER

[towertop]

WE as a group need to let Mr. Warren Miller know we don't appreciate him showing people jumping off ski lifts in his movies! I don't know how many of you saw the movie this year, but there it was. I could not believe what I saw, 2 people jumping from a chair. I know any 15 to 25 year old kid who saw this said COOL DUDE! Lets jump. Well the problem is out there, I have no sympathy for anyone who jumps, you deserve what you get. You need to never ski again! We need to put murderers and child molesters to death. Cut the hand of a theif off. Put a rapest in the stocks and let the public have at em'. Our fore fathers had a clue, untill the ACLU stepped in and messed it up. We need to make punishment fit the crime, we do this and people would STOP!

[andyh1962]

towertop, on Dec 18 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

WE as a group need to let Mr. Warren Miller know we don't appreciate him showing people jumping off ski lifts in his movies! I don't know how many of you saw the movie this year, but there it was. I could not believe what I saw, 2 people jumping from a chair. I know any 15 to 25 year old kid who saw this said COOL DUDE! Lets jump. Well the problem is out there, I have no sympathy for anyone who jumps, you deserve what you get. You need to never ski again! We need to put murderers and child molesters to death. Cut the hand of a theif off. Put a rapest in the stocks and let the public have at em'. Our fore fathers had a clue, untill the ACLU stepped in and messed it up. We need to make punishment fit the crime, we do this and people would STOP!

I think we are going to see a lot of lift jumpers this year as a result of the footage in the Warren Miller film. I am a ski patroller and I have been told by Paramedics with lots of experience in this area (dealing with patient's who "fall from height" ) that a fall from 15 feet will result in at least one broken bone, a fall from more than 15 feet will result in more than 2 broken bones.

I have friend who is an avid skier, and who has seen the Warren Miller flim clip in question and she told me a close firend of hers (who is 45 years old and should know better) jumped from a ski lift last year, about 20 to 25 feet down, and he needed a knee replacement as a result of that jump. So you 20 to 25 year yahoos, if you jump off the lift, you endanger everyone on the lift and there is a good chance you will may need up to 4 knee replacements in your lifetime (base on average knee replacement lasting 15 years before wear out ) . That is if you ever walk again.

In our area, silly season begins March 1 with the warm weather, end of race training and end of ski school. I think it will be an interesting season for ski patrollers and lift maintenance people.

[Dr Frankenstein]

What I don't exactly understand is why the patrol guy scanned his ID cards and such... Okay, in the U.S. it may be different, but here, in Canada, there's no official law that prohibits people from jumping off a lift (even if everyone accepts the fact that it should not be done). The ski patrol (here, at least) could not call the police, they would ask "What for? A guy jumping off your lift is your problem.".

Where I work, they just cut their ticket and ask them to either climb the hill by themselves or buy a new ticket.

[ex-liftie]

I don't think there are any official laws on the books, but I do know that ski patrol can enforve the laws of the areas. In my experience, if the cops are called it is for an actual law breaking offense, they will do about what the ski patrollers ask them to do. The police don't have a presence on the hill, so they rely on the patrollers to do their job for them.

As for the kid jumping out of the chair- what an idiot! What did he expect a pat on the back for jumping from a chair! Moron...

[lastchair_44]

I've heard of people jumping from chairs and the cops threatening them with reckless endangerment.

[spark's]

If i catch anyone jumping off a lift that's it there done. PERIOD... Season pass holder or not and i will argue it... And i,ve got the point that will get you kicked off the MT. indefentaly... A derail is no fun in the middle of the winter and yes jumping a lift can do that but my point is DEATH.... There is no coming back next week when your 6 ft under... You might not be the one that die's but it could your friend, girlfriend, brother, sister, the kid's in the chair behind you that saw you jump and thought it's the coolest thing they have ever seen... Five year's ago i was working at this MT. and i was working that night... I was not at the top but my good friend was the first on the scene... It was by far the worst night i've ever had in the bis.... If you ask me they went to light on you because your still weighing the fact's... you we're wrong ... I dont care if your stuck in a chair for an hour KEEP YOUR ASS IN THAT CHAIR... Try giving cpr to a dead 14 yr old girl.... http://www.plant-maintenance.com/articles/...nixAnalysis.pdf

[WBSKI]

towertop, you are being a bit stereotypical about every 15-25 year old kid because most of my friends (not interested too much in skilifts) are not so dumb as to jump off a skilift.... There should be something at the bottom of the mtn or on lift towers and if people dont follow that, they should not be allowed on the mountain for at least a year because the potential damage to the resort is much greater than the amount they are going to bring into the resort.