It seems to me that the development of the "glorifeid clothesline" has gone about far enough.
The notion of attaching human beings to a rope conveyor has always been dubious at best. Think about it - the electronics that control today's lifts are light-years ahead of the dumb machines they are in charge of. Fresh thinking is needed badly.
I challenge those of you who are still in school to come up with something more sensible than "ropes and pulleys."
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Antique Technology
Started by Emax, Jan 12 2006 10:06 AM
40 replies to this topic
#3
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 11:55 AM
Everything is just loop-de-loops and flibertyjibbit
#4
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 12:36 PM
Funny you should bring this up. I find that this subject arrises with most of us who have been in
the industry for awhile. My automatic response every time which usually gets a serious face then
some sarcasm is: MAGNETS!!!!
Wave of the future LOL!
What I want to know is where are all the younger innovators and engineers with some radical new ideas?
A two story 185 person CWA cabin doesn't count as radical thinking.
Ps I have to add that there have been unbelievable advances in grip technology but I think its strickly because it had to happen.
the industry for awhile. My automatic response every time which usually gets a serious face then
some sarcasm is: MAGNETS!!!!
Wave of the future LOL!
What I want to know is where are all the younger innovators and engineers with some radical new ideas?
A two story 185 person CWA cabin doesn't count as radical thinking.
Ps I have to add that there have been unbelievable advances in grip technology but I think its strickly because it had to happen.
#5
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 12:54 PM
^ yeah great point.
It is pretty obvious that if the environment demands change, that we must aclimate to meet it. Ingenuity is best when there is a problem that needs to be solved.
unless someone is crazy or off the deep end.
these pullys and cables will last for a long time in the industry.
It is pretty obvious that if the environment demands change, that we must aclimate to meet it. Ingenuity is best when there is a problem that needs to be solved.
unless someone is crazy or off the deep end.
these pullys and cables will last for a long time in the industry.
#7
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Posted 12 January 2006 - 05:20 PM
"Uncle K" is no longer a public figure. He has retired to enjoy the rest of his life.
This post has been edited by Lift Dinosaur: 12 January 2006 - 05:21 PM
"Things turn out best for the people that make the best of the way things turn out." A.L.
#10
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- Industry II
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ccslider
Posted 15 January 2006 - 07:28 AM
puk, on Jan 14 2006, 04:23 AM, said:
Every time I go to the drive-through at the bank to make a deposite and put my check in that tube I get to thinking , Would this be possible on a larger scale?
There's got to be a way to cushion the acceleration which would "uncomfortable."
Next time you go to the bank, try placing a mouse in the carrier and see what kind of a reaction you get from the teller....
ok so i couldnt find a mouse and the bank wasnt real thrilled about the whole skunk thing. anybody got any extra bail money? 
j/k
#14
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Posted 27 January 2006 - 06:12 PM
Emax, on Jan 27 2006, 04:57 PM, said:
"yeah, except instead of the grips failing on this yan, well end up with half a body on the other side!"
In some cases, that might be a vast improvement.
In some cases, that might be a vast improvement.
And in other instances...
"Things turn out best for the people that make the best of the way things turn out." A.L.
#16
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Posted 29 January 2006 - 01:01 PM
You assert that the electronics on chairlifts are "light-years" ahead of the machines that they control.
I do not take that to be the case at all. There are some basic designs that are thought out so well that it might be considered impossible to come up with something better. I'm sure that you have heard of the plan to return to the moon in the next 15 years or so. The basic shape of the craft that they are proposing is pretty much identical to those used in the Apollo missions. I would argue that lifts are in a similar position in that there is no better solution.
In fact, whatever method you use to trasport someone up a hill, the cabin that he rides in must be connected to another cabin going down (and obviously at some point you must have a cabin going down). By doing this, the force of gravity on each cabin cancels out due to the force applied by whatever apparatus connects them. Thus, when you are operating the lift, you only have to put energy into getting the lift to move, overcoming friction, and, of course, moving the person vertically (in terms of potential energy). In contrast, if the two cabins are unconnected, you also have to put potential energy into the up-moving cabin as well as finding a way of removing potential energy from the down-moving cabin (which in itself requires an expense of energy). So, here we have established that the "glorified clothesline" is the most efficient method of transport up mountains.
I would also argue that lifts are built much more intelligently than they were before. Engineering advances have lead to increased efficiency in terms of reduction of friction, ease of maintainance, etc.
Are these lifts technological relics? No, and far from it: These are precision machines, powerful, intricate, and thoughtfully engineered. Dealing with the mechanics of cables is no easy task.
I do not take that to be the case at all. There are some basic designs that are thought out so well that it might be considered impossible to come up with something better. I'm sure that you have heard of the plan to return to the moon in the next 15 years or so. The basic shape of the craft that they are proposing is pretty much identical to those used in the Apollo missions. I would argue that lifts are in a similar position in that there is no better solution.
In fact, whatever method you use to trasport someone up a hill, the cabin that he rides in must be connected to another cabin going down (and obviously at some point you must have a cabin going down). By doing this, the force of gravity on each cabin cancels out due to the force applied by whatever apparatus connects them. Thus, when you are operating the lift, you only have to put energy into getting the lift to move, overcoming friction, and, of course, moving the person vertically (in terms of potential energy). In contrast, if the two cabins are unconnected, you also have to put potential energy into the up-moving cabin as well as finding a way of removing potential energy from the down-moving cabin (which in itself requires an expense of energy). So, here we have established that the "glorified clothesline" is the most efficient method of transport up mountains.
I would also argue that lifts are built much more intelligently than they were before. Engineering advances have lead to increased efficiency in terms of reduction of friction, ease of maintainance, etc.
Are these lifts technological relics? No, and far from it: These are precision machines, powerful, intricate, and thoughtfully engineered. Dealing with the mechanics of cables is no easy task.
"Quo usque tandem abutere, Catalina, patientia nostra?" -Cicero
#19
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Posted 25 May 2006 - 09:19 PM
puk, on Jan 14 2006, 04:23 AM, said:
Every time I go to the drive-through at the bank to make a deposite and put my check in that tube I get to thinking , Would this be possible on a larger scale?
I know of two elevators that operate on this principle. They are both installed in large hydro-electric dams. The one I went on covered more than 800 feet in around 12-15 seconds, although it was a tight fit for four people.
As far as a replacement for cableways, I don't see anything replacing them for a long time to come. There are some inventions that just work, and as archaic as they might seem, there's nothing to replace them. Look at the wheel.
Chairlifts get you to the top of the mountain, the lift line is passable to people and even vehicles if towers are high enough, they're efficient, and the newer terminals aren't unnattractive at all. What else is there to ask for that cableways don't offer?
#20
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Posted 30 May 2006 - 04:36 PM
Well when the internal combustion engine was invented, it was a great idea, and has been heavily refined since then. It's compact, portable, cost effective and runs on a fairly cost effective and easily transported fuel. With cities engulfed in smog and the world on the brink of an anthropomorphic climate disaster, finally, the internal combustion engine isn't such a brilliant idea. Now that we realize that while we were crusading against nuclear power that the internal combustion engine was silently and single handedly destroying the planet, there's still no better way. So far the only replacement has been a different kind of internal combustion engine, or supplementing it with an electrical energy storage system. And when hydrogen is cheaply available, you'll see more hydrogen powered internal combustion engines than fuel cells. (In fact there's already an airport taxi fleet in Germany that is fueled by hydrogen internal combustion engines.)
It's the problem itself, the environment of the problem, and the environment that the solution must operate in that determines what is and is not a good solution.
Cableways have a long and successful history of solving the problem. Technologies like that aren't easily displaced by a new technology.
It's the problem itself, the environment of the problem, and the environment that the solution must operate in that determines what is and is not a good solution.
Cableways have a long and successful history of solving the problem. Technologies like that aren't easily displaced by a new technology.
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