10 replies to this topic

[nathanvg]

I'm a bit confused by the 76 lift survey's information for Vail. It lists:

Vail Chair 2 2C Lift Engineering N/A 6110 1406 1200 500
Vail Chair 16 2C Lift Engineering N/A 4430 1156 1200 500
Vail Chair 17 2C Lift Engineering N/A 6300 1338 1200 500
Vail Chair 4 3C Lift Engineering N/A 4360 1100 1800 475
Vail Lionshead Gondola (4) Von Roll N/A 9500 2200 1100 700

First the easy error: the Lionshead gondola held 6 not 4 people. This seems to be a common error, but first hand experence and web searches for "vail gondola crash" will bring back articals mentioning 6 people in a car such as:

http://www.tahoe.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikke...02080101&Ref=AR


Second, although i'm not sure of the years exactly, I do know that vail had two gondolas running at the same time (and no lift 16 or 17 which replaced the first gondola). See coloradoskihistory.com's old trail maps for unknown year example. So either the 2nd gondola was put in before 76 or lifts 16 and 17 were added later.

One last thing, if lift 2 was really added in 76 it must have been a replacement for the older lift 2 which seems odd considering the lift would have only been a few years old.

Just some things I noticed. I'm not trying to rip apart the survey, I think its great that this site is putting it up. I just want to correct issues/confusion when I see it.

[nathanvg]

Update:

After a bit of web searching I think I have answer a little bit of my own question:

The lionshead gondola was built by Bell in 1969 and retrofitted in 76 by von roll. I think this explains the majority of the above, but if anyone knows more, feel free to add.

This post has been edited by nathanvg: 11 September 2005 - 08:04 PM

[SkiBachelor]

Thanks for the corrections Nathan. It becomes more difficult to determine the names of lifts 30 years later after they were isntalled. The best way to get it is from the resort or lift manufacturer.

From Chairlift.org

Quote

The following info came from Eric of Denver.
"Cool site!! Have Skied Vail since 1968. I think I can fill in some of the story on the gondolas. The accident on the Lionshead Gondola occured in March, 1976. The cause was a frayed track cable that made 3 or four cars get tangled on tower #5. Two of the cars fell and a third was left hanging by a thread of steel. The cars are the original cars but they had new arms and wheel carriages installed. The towers were re-configured at the top so that the haul cable would not be able to cut through the arm if a similar accident occurred. The Lionshead gondola was replacedin 1996. The original Gondola was removed in the summer of 1976 because similar design flaws were found. Also, by that time, thevillage gondola did not have enough uphill capacity because it only carried 4 passengers. The village gondola was replaced with 2 double chairlifts."
Thanks Eric!

[SkiBachelor]

I just found out that lifts 16 and 17 at Vail were added in 1976. The LE installation sheet arrived today.

[nathanvg]

SkiBachelor, on Sep 12 2005, 03:35 PM, said:

I just found out that lifts 16 and 17 at Vail were added in 1976. The LE installation sheet arrived today.

That sounds right.

I've been trying to put together the entire vail lift survey. I compiled the following info from the lift survey on this site. (is there a way to query the lift survey data on this site: by resort, by lift length, vert ect.)

Note: The numbers in () indicates the lift I think the survey is referencing.

72
Vail N/A Platter Heron Poma 15 600 100 900 480
Vail (9)N/A 2C Riblet 200E 4786 1167 1200 500 ?
Vail (8)N/A 2C Riblet 250E 5869 1408 1200 500 ?
73
Vail Highline 2C Riblet N/A 6987 1762 1150 500
74
Vail (11)N/A 2C Riblet N/A 5484 1525 1200 500 ?
Vail Gopher Hill 2C Riblet N/A 945 146 1200 350
75
Vail (14)N/A 3C Lift Engineering N/A 2390 510 1800 450
Vail (15)N/A 2C Lift Engineering N/A 822 111 1200 350
76
Vail (2) 2C Lift Engineering N/A 6110 1406 1200 500 ?
Vail (16)N/A 2C Lift Engineering N/A 4430 1156 1200 500 ?
Vail (17) 2C Lift Engineering N/A 6300 1338 1200 500 ?
Vail Chair 4 3C Lift Engineering N/A 4360 1100 1800 475
Vail‡ Lionshead Gondola (6) Von Roll N/A 9500 2200 1100 700
79
Vail High Noon 3C Doppelmayr N/A 5540 1856 1400 500
85
Vail Mountain Top 4C-Det. Doppelmayr N/A 4310 1107 2800 1000
Vail Game Creek 4C-Det. Doppelmayr N/A 4357 1180 2800 1000
Vail North Woods 4C-Det. Doppelmayr N/A 5564 1528 2800 1000
Vail Vista Bahn (Bubbled) 4C-Det. Doppelmayr N/A 9045 1988 2650 1000
Vail Hunky Dory 3C Lift Engineering N/A ? 830 1800 475 RELOCATED from lift 4
87
Vail Cascade Village 4C CTEC 400 3497 1278 1800 450
88
Vail Orient Express 4C-Det. Doppelmayr 800 7658 1565 2400 1000
Vail Born Free Express 4C-Det. Doppelmayr 700 6076 1593 2800 1000
89
Vail Avanti Express 4C-Det. Doppelmayr 700 6588 1466 2800 1000
93
Vail Pride Express 4C-Det. Garaventa CTEC 600 5415 1225 2800 984
95
Vail Wildwoods Express 4C-Det. Garaventa CTEC 500 3350 852 2800 984
96
Vail Eagle Bahn Gondola (12) Garaventa CTEC 1600 9148 2215 3000 1181
Vail Riva Bahn 4C-Det. Garaventa CTEC 1000 9051 1705 2800 984
99
Vail Tea Cup Express 4C-Det. Poma 900 6704 1244 1244 1100
Vail Skyline Express 4C-Det. Poma 900 8391 1936 1800 1100
Vail Earl's Express 4C-Det. Poma 500 4834 1357 1200 1100
2000
Vail Pete's Express 4C-Det. Poma 600 6677 1581 1800 1100

*The above list has been modified as more info has been found

Can anyone verify my lift numbers? I'm not 100% sure of the lifts in 73 and I can't figure out which lifts are which in 76. Lifts 16 and 17 were put in this year, but what's the other one? Assuming lift number are correlated to lift install dates, I am confused why I can not find any record of the install of lift 10. I'm sure its not listed because its vertical is 1762. It is possible that the third lift in 76 is a replacement for an already existing lift.

Other lift info:
In 62 lifts 4,5, and the 1st gondola (#16) were put in.

Before 1971 lifts 1,2,3,6,7 and 19 (2nd gondola) were put in.

Lift that are not listed on the survey:
11 northwoods 5564 length 1528 vert (74)
10 1762 vert riblet (early 70's?)
8 about 1100 vert (73)
9 riblet around 1400 vert (73)
17(midvail) about 1400 vert (76)
16(double) about 1200 vert (76)
17 (sun up) relocated early 90's from BC

This post has been edited by nathanvg: 13 September 2005 - 04:33 PM

[poloxskier]

Somewhere in there was the 4C yan(i believe, about 90% sure) Hunky Dory. I have no idea what year it was though or if it was a previous lift but upgraded. It ran the same line that wildwood now does.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 12 September 2005 - 07:06 PM

[nathanvg]

poloxskier, on Sep 12 2005, 09:05 PM, said:

Somewhere in there was the 4C yan(i believe, about 90% sure) Hunky Dory. I have no idea what year it was though or if it was a previous lift but upgraded. It ran the same line that wildwood now does.

I recall that lift too. It had the same number (3) and was renamed when it was made a HSQ. I don't know what year it was made into FGQ but it was originally a FGD put in between 63 and 71

[poloxskier]

I know that it was a FG quad that replaced a earlier riblet double I just couldnt remember if it was a yan or not. I believe so though.

[boardski]

The Yan double version of lift #2 was also installed in 1976 along with 16 &17. This replaced the original Riblet double chair that was built in 1964 along with lifts 1 (still there-not for long though) and the original lift #3 (Riblet double, replaced in 1985 when the former chair 4 was moved (1975 Yan triple)) Lift #3 was made into a FGQ in 1988ish (triple carriers removed, quad chairs added) and ran that way until it was replaced with the current Garaventa CTEC HSQ in 1995 (many of the tower uprights are from the '75 Yan.) There is some lift development information in Pete Seiberts book "Triumph of A Dream" but not super-specific. Regarding 1973, lift 10 was installed that year but I remember seeing a plackard mounted to the wall of the vault drive room on top of chair 9 in which the year '1972' was inscribed. That would leave the question of which lift that second lift was. When was the original chair 7 (Game Creek) installed? I know the original chair 6 in Golden Peak was installed in '67 since it is mentioned in Siebert's book but I'm not sure it was always an "up-and-over" lift (two loading stations on each side and unloading for both on top of the hill).

[nathanvg]

boardski, on Sep 13 2005, 10:36 AM, said:

The Yan double version of lift #2 was also installed in 1976 along with 16 &17. This replaced the original Riblet double chair that was built in 1964 along with lifts 1 (still there-not for long though) and the original lift #3 (Riblet double, replaced in 1985 when the former chair 4 was moved (1975 Yan triple)) Lift #3 was made into a FGQ in 1988ish (triple carriers removed, quad chairs added) and ran that way until it was replaced with the current Garaventa CTEC HSQ in 1995 (many of the tower uprights are from the '75 Yan.) There is some lift development information in Pete Seiberts book "Triumph of A Dream" but not super-specific. Regarding 1973, lift 10 was installed that year but I remember seeing a plackard mounted to the wall of the vault drive room on top of chair 9 in which the year '1972' was inscribed. That would leave the question of which lift that second lift was. When was the original chair 7 (Game Creek) installed? I know the original chair 6 in Golden Peak was installed in '67 since it is mentioned in Siebert's book but I'm not sure it was always an "up-and-over" lift (two loading stations on each side and unloading for both on top of the hill).

There is a lot of info in the above. I'll update the above post to reflect the install of lifts 17 and 2 in 76.

Why was 2 replaced just 10 years after its installation?

So if I understand your info above, you think lift 10 was put in 73, but I can't match it to any lift in 73 due to lift ten's large vert.

Lifts 8 and 9 were likely built in the same year as analternate way to reach eagle's nest when the gondola was too busy. The stats of the lifts in 73 roughly match lifts 8 and 9, which conflicts with your memory of a 72 sign on lift 9. Can anyone provide more info?
--UPDATE: there was an error in the lift survey, survey labeled as 73 was really 72. This error explains the above.

Thanks for the info on the lift 3 and several pre 73 lift installs.

This post has been edited by nathanvg: 13 September 2005 - 04:31 PM

[poloxskier]

boardski, on Sep 13 2005, 07:36 AM, said:

The Yan double version of lift #2 was also installed in 1976 along with 16 &17. This replaced the original Riblet double chair that was built in 1964 along with lifts 1 (still there-not for long though) and the original lift #3 (Riblet double, replaced in 1985 when the former chair 4 was moved (1975 Yan triple)) Lift #3 was made into a FGQ in 1988ish (triple carriers removed, quad chairs added) and ran that way until it was replaced with the current Garaventa CTEC HSQ in 1995 (many of the tower uprights are from the '75 Yan.) There is some lift development information in Pete Seiberts book "Triumph of A Dream" but not super-specific. Regarding 1973, lift 10 was installed that year but I remember seeing a plackard mounted to the wall of the vault drive room on top of chair 9 in which the year '1972' was inscribed. That would leave the question of which lift that second lift was. When was the original chair 7 (Game Creek) installed? I know the original chair 6 in Golden Peak was installed in '67 since it is mentioned in Siebert's book but I'm not sure it was always an "up-and-over" lift (two loading stations on each side and unloading for both on top of the hill).

Talking to an old lift op/mountain rep that has worked at Vail for over 30 years, he said that Golden Peak was always a up and over although the mid station on the front was added later. He also said that Giant Steps is due to be removed next summer but they may be moving it and shortening it for a new beginner lift.