35 replies to this topic

[poloxskier]

Here is a rescent article from the Summit Daily News regarding the gondola and ski-way back to town.

Quote

BRECKENRIDGE - Vail Resorts announced Friday that it will begin the much-anticipated Skiway project this spring.

The Skyway Skiway will allow skiers and snowboarders to take a ski run from Breckenridge's Peak 8 to day-skier parking lots, eliminating the need to stand in line at the base area to catch the bus at day's end.

The project will be launched two years ahead of schedule. Its early start is made possible by brisk presales of the next phase of Mountain Thunder Lodge, a townhome project on Park Avenue.

The company secured property easements required to build the ski run from the base of Peak 8 to the Sawmill parking lot in town. A bridge over Ski Hill Road and a tunnel under Park Avenue will take skiers to the parking lot.

The Skiway project is expected to cost $4 million to $5 million and open for the 2006-2007 ski season.

Vail Resorts Development Company - the real estate arm of the ski company - started selling Mountain Thunder Lodge units two weeks ago. High demand for the luxury units, which are priced from $540,000 to $895,000, prompted the company to offer 16 units initially and contemplate another 18 in the near future.

Presales of Vail Resorts' Breckenridge real estate projects were much anticipated by Breckenridge elected officials and residents, who were told by company chairman and chief executive officer Adam Aron that sales would drive important community projects such as the Skiway.

Mountain Thunder Lodge units are selling faster than anticipated, said Alex Iskenderian, vice president of development for Vail Resorts Development Company.

"The mountain real estate market has turned a corner," Iskenderian said. "(Presales) show there's a demand for new, high-end products in Breckenridge."

Vail Resorts realized similar presales success with a larger project at Lionshead in Vail, where the company is redeveloping its base village.

But Iskenderian could not say if the uptick in the market would propel other projects on Breckenridge's horizon, such as a gondola planned to lift skiers from town to the ski area bases.

Real estate sales at the company's planned Peak 7 base area development in Breckenridge are expected to pay for a portion of the gondola project.

"Right now, we're just focusing on Mountain Thunder Lodge and the Skiway," Iskenderian said. "We're excited about the fact we're staring the Skiway two years early. What that means for other properties, I can't comment on that right now."

Mountain Thunder Lodge is located along the planned Skiway route, so property owners will have ski-in access. New units will be part of the existing condominiums located on Park Avenue. Neighborhood amenities include a pool, fitness facilities and meeting rooms.

Construction on the townhomes will start this summer, and completion is set for fall 2006.

While Vail Resorts will pay for the Skiway, it intends to partner with the town on financing future community projects such as the gondola.

"We're building the Skiway and not asking the town for money now," Iskenderian said. "But we're not relieving the town of its commitment on the overall numbers."

The two entities signed an agreement in 2002 that required construction on the Skiway to begin by 2007.

Breckenridge officials are hoping the real estate success at Mountain Thunder Lodge will propel the gondola project forward.

"(We) are hopeful that this success will encourage ski area officials to move forward with the anticipated gondola at an accelerated pace," said Mayor Ernie Blake in a prepared statement.

[highspeedquad]

So from what I extracted they are building a trail to ski down to parking lots? That seems a bit much for $5 million. That doesn't include the gondi, does it?

[poloxskier]

I think thats just for the trail. They have to cut a really long trail, build a bridge and tunnel. Plus the cost of constuction in the mountains is usualy substantialy more than elsewhere.

[highspeedquad]

Okay, I guess the costs for all of the structures for the run would add some green to the price. How much would the gondi cost?

[poloxskier]

The price for the total plan was estimated at $20 million. So about $14 million. Of that amount the town is adding $200,000 for the gondola but the skiway is being paid for by vail resorts.

[highspeedquad]

Okay, I'm very eager to see the gondi, but from what I hear it might be a while. I think it would be much nicer to be able to ride the gondi after waking up as opposed to the Snowflake, which is the only lift that is really near condos. That's my opinion.

[poloxskier]

There are lots of condos that are even closer than the ones near snowflake. Beaver Run, The ones at the base of peak 8, The new ones at the base of peak 7(which are still slated to begin construction this summer), and too many others.

[poloxskier]

They are still saying arround the mountain that construction may begin this summer but it could be a few years before its open.

[highspeedquad]

I just used snowflake as the example because snowflakes main purpose is that, as would be the gondi's. I do think a base at peak 7 would be nice. Hopefully they would add a restaurant or something like that.

[poloxskier]

Theres suposed to be some sort of resturant added to the development I dont know how much mountain traffic it would get though. The base of 8 is going to be developed to include shops, fine dining, a resturant to replace the Bergie, and many residential units. The base is going to have somewhat of the feel of main street but will be a base like Vail's that is mostly foot traffic.

[highspeedquad]

So it will be a longer walk to reach the restaurant from the lifts on Peak 8? Darn. I would just love to see a restaurant and all of that stuff at Peak 7, so I could ski there all day if I wanted to. That is my favorite area at Breck.

[poloxskier]

Where it is planed it will probably be a shorter walk. It will be situated at the same level as the lifts and the basement area will be street level with the shop entrances and a staircase to the shops and hotel entrances being at parking lot level(this part is still a number of years off). It will be on an incline somewhat like copper station(I think thats the name, the base of the Eagle). I have full planning documents for the base development but they are in Colorado springs. I'm going to get them and upload them to this forum hopefuly this weekend so you can get a better idea of the base design.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 22 February 2005 - 06:30 PM

[highspeedquad]

Really, well that sounds interesting. I can't wait to see it. So it will be a few years after the gondi?

The base of the eagle/flyer is "The Village at Copper."

[poloxskier]

One of those buildings I think used to be called Copper Station, I guess that dates the season that I last made regular visits to copper :blinksmiley: . A few years afterwards is what is currently planned but the plans call for the condos to be installed on trygve's. They have already begun to cut the trees for the new condos but the problem with the current elevation drawings is that when the condos are complete the bottom part of trygve's will just about disapear. The trees started being cut last spring but there hasnt been any more visable progress since.

This post has been edited by poloxskier: 23 February 2005 - 01:37 PM

[poloxskier]

Heres another, older article from the Summit Daily about the gondola that details the cost and the sharing of the amount.

Quote

JANE STEBBINS
October 7, 2004

BRECKENRIDGE - Initial angst over discussion of the Breckenridge gondola this week is now being blamed on a miscommunication between Vail Resorts and the Breckenridge Town Council.

Some Breckenridge Town Council members expected a breakthrough at last week's VR board meeting in New York, where they thought possible funding and scheduling questions about the gondola would be answered. Instead, they learned just before Vail Resorts chief executive Adam Aron was to leave for New York that he didn't plan to discuss the proposal or request his board to fund the gondola.

Breckenridge Ski Resort chief operations officer Roger McCarthy said Aron never planned to ask the board for money because they only take capital projects to the board in February.

"The gondola is something that hasn't gone through our management team discussion yet," McCarthy said. "I'm thinking there was an expectation in Breck that we were going to have an answer. I don't know where that expectation came from. I don't know when we'll get it to a level where we can take it to the board. We're still working on it."

Mayor Ernie Blake said he got the expectation from conversations with McCarthy and Aron.

"I knew they had a board meeting; that's when I thought it was going to go," Blake said. "I thought it would go to allow a one-year time frame so we'd have it for next ski season."

Aron was unavailable for comment Tuesday.

Councilmember Eric Mamula would prefer to see construction of the lodge on Peak 8 begin before that of the gondola.

"I've never been a huge fan of the gondola," he said. "Nothing else is done up there. They're going to spend that kind of money to take people up to the Bergie? To an aged resort? I think this is a little bit of the cart before the horse. There are a lot of things to go together as a package that need to be talked about."

It's possible Aron could bring the topic to the board next February, and there's still a chance construction could begin next year, McCarthy said. That, however, is optimistic.

And while they have approval from the town for the conceptual design and permission to cross Cucumber Gulch, they have yet to pull any development permits, said town manager Tim Gagen. The ski company has, however, submitted detailed plans to the town planning staff regarding details of the gondola - tower placement, the turn stations and bases among them.

All that remains to do is figure out financing. Ski resort and town officials both hoped the financing would be in place so construction could begin and the gondola would be ready for the 2005-2006 season.

"It's a lot like building a regular lift," Gagen said. "If they get the nod, they could have construction under way this winter."

The gondola was proposed as a means to reduce traffic congestion on Ski Hill Road, running from the new intermodal center in Watson parking lot, rising over Shock Hill, traveling over Cucumber Gulch to Peak 7 before dog-legging to Peak 8.

The estimated $14 million cost will be split between the town and ski resort, with the town footing 35 percent - about $5.3 million - of the cost. The town's money is set aside already, and will be recovered from Real Estate Transfer Tax and property tax revenues once construction begins on condos and homes on peaks 7 and 8, said town manager Tim Gagen.

Additionally, the developers of Shock Hill have agreed to chip in $750,000.

The ski company, however, isn't obligated to build the gondola until it gets certificates of occupancy for its 300th residential unit on the mountain.

"These things go on and off half a dozen times before you ever get to cut a ribbon," McCarthy said. "A big, complicated lift like this? By the time you get to the day where you push the button and it runs, the deal's gone sideways a half-dozen times. And it hasn't even gone sideways. This is not a 'no.' It's a huge project; it takes lots of coordination."

[poloxskier]

Heres some more info from a Ski Magazine that goes into more detail but I'm unsure of the date:

Quote

The wind curls, with a banshee's wail, over the crest of the ridge, then blows downslope to sculpt fresh powder like frosting beneath a baker's knife. In an age when skiing perfection is hard to find, this comes close enough: plenty of new snow and just enough weather to keep the skiing masses at the bottom of the mountain.

Moving quickly away from the wind, skiers dive over the lip of the ridge in search of that perfect line down a massive snowfield whose symmetry set its name: Horseshoe Bowl. Other skiers, more ambitious, climb even higher to find the hidden slots and chutes that have prompted generations of serious skiers to call this resort home.

In addition to a love of steep, wild places, these skiers share another common bond. They all arrived in this lofty slice of the mountain, well above 12,000 feet, on the same antiquated T-bar that has ferried skiers for almost as long as some of them have been alive. Such is the enigma of Breckenridge, which for two out of the past three seasons has been the most popular resort in the U.S. Outrageously successful, wildly loved, Breckenridge still suffers from the same malady as many an aging grande dame. Wrinkles appear, and a face lift is needed.

Like the banshee, Roger McCarthy is Irish. Unlike the mythical spirit, he has been dispatched to the most venerable ski town in the Rockies to preside over renewal rather than death. A 51-year-old native of New Zealand who speaks both English and French with a Kiwi accent, McCarthy was chosen by Intrawest a decade ago to supervise the revival of near-bankrupt Tremblant resort in Quebec, which had often been derided as one of the worst ski areas on the East Coast. Within five years, Tremblant become the model of success, earning the No. 1 East ranking in SKI's annual Reader Survey for five years running.

Hired by rival Vail Resorts two years ago to be chief operating officer at Breckenridge, McCarthy now directs a similar, if less comprehensive, resort renovation. So he again finds himself on a hot seat. How hot depends upon his skill reconciling the financial needs of America's largest ski conglomerate with the quality-of-life demands of a historic mining town.

With a manner that is easy and direct, McCarthy seems capable of charming the horns off the mountain goats that roam above the slopes. Already he has earned the loyalty of employees who two years ago hosted nearly 1.5 million skiers days—the most for any single resort, including parent Vail (a source of embarrassment to some Vail executives).

McCarthy is an uncommon man with a common touch. On a freezing night with a full crew repairing a gear box high on the mountain, McCarthy leaves his home on a mission of mercy. Lashed to his snowmobile is cold beer. So what's not to love?

Whether he can cast a similar spell over a community wary of its new corporate parent's commercialism is another matter. In the 40 years since a Kansas lumber company installed a chairlift on a slope above town, Breckenridge has experienced a revolving door of owners whose tactics sometimes resembled visits from Attila the Hun. When Vail Resorts (VR) added Breckenridge and Keystone to its empire four years ago, the first order of business was to convince a skeptical populace it hadn't come to pillage.

To the delight of civic leaders, VR spent $18 million on improvements in its first season and $14 million the next—more than all the owners combined in the previous decade. But when Vail bought the Hilton Hotel for $18 million and a year later paid $24 million for The Village at Breckenridge—a diverse property that includes a hotel, lodge, 360 condos and 58,000 square feet of retail and convention space—local merchants started to worry the resort would dominate the retail scene. McCarthy downplays any conflict. "We'd be foolish to attempt to be involved in 40 different kinds of businesses in competition with the town. It just doesn't work." At the same time, he concedes the reality that VR won't be able to pay $70 million for the next round of improvements solely on lift-ticket sales.

"In the VR model, this revenue comes largely from real estate and commercial profits—mostly real estate. In the Breckenridge mix, our development is but a drop in the bucket. We can't compete with the existing 340,000 square feet of commercial space along Main Street." Sam Mamula, whose tenure as Breckenridge mayor coincides with McCarthy's arrival, isn't so sure. How the pie gets sliced is central to negotiations between McCarthy and the Breckenridge Town Council, even as the clock ticks on next season's improvements. For a place whose infrastructure lags behind the other three stars in the VR galaxy (Vail, Beaver Creek, Keystone), the need for improvements looms supreme. As so often is the case in the modern ski industry, the focus of a resort remake centers on a gondola. In Breckenridge, the proposed lift is designed to connect the town to new ski terrain and real-estate development on Peak 7 and a totally revamped skier-services complex at the base of Peak 8. The rub comes in determining how much retail space VR is allowed. VR plans for 27,000 square feet; local merchants, wary of competition, want less than half of that, no more than 12,000 square feet.

"We're analyzing this huge project purely on the impact it has on our town," says Mamula, a Pennsylvania transplant who opened Eric's Down Under restaurant 16 years ago. "We must be careful we don't lose the character of a place where people feel a powerful sense of community, which they in turn convey to our guests. That's perhaps our most attractive quality."

The two leaders, corporate and civic, have developed a strong trust, along with the realization that even if mountain and town aren't joined at the hip, they are at the wallet.

"I deeply respect the town's concerns. I've come to love this place," McCarthy says. "VR has given us real, caring people," Mamula returns. "We're going to work this out."

The lone certainty in all of this is that whatever the rhetoric, Breckenridge will change dramatically over the next few years, as it often has throughout the more than 140 years since gold-seekers made it Colorado's oldest continuously occupied mountain town. When I first came here in the winter of 1967, I found an odd collection of Victorian and slab-sided buildings, mostly in need of paint. Ghosts sometimes outnumbered guests.

From a lookout post 75 miles away in Denver, I've watched it grow in fits and starts: the expansion to Peak 9 with the world's first high-speed detachable quad in 1982, then on to Peak 10 and, finally, Peak 7. The result is a massive network of 25 lifts spreading across 2,043 acres, including some of the finest high-alpine skiing on the continent.

Skiing at Breckenridge keeps everyone involved. The difference here is that the terrain tilts heavily to both ends of the scale. Most of the lower slopes are beginner or lower intermediate. At the other extreme, the trail map shows enough double-black to drain an inkwell. Summit enclaves such as Lake Chutes, Imperial Bowl, Peak 9 Chutes, Horseshoe Bowl and Peak 7 Bowl provide controlled mayhem. Toss in legendary bump runs with names like Psychopath Gully and you'll understand why so many adventure skiers call this home.

Below, the town has sprouted every imaginable amenity, with pillows for 25,000 visitors (one of the largest bedbases in North American skiing) and plenty of action past bedtime.

More recently, Breckenridge assumed a different tenor, one of civic and environmental concern. Fueled by a bulging sales-tax base, the town added a $7 million recreation complex, a river walk, a performing arts center, two ice rinks, stream restoration and the only Jack Nicklaus-designed public golf course in the world. In a landmark move, a town that once cheered as giant dredge boats churned up miles of stream bed searching for gold nuggets spent $5 million to preserve a wetland that now becomes a zone of contention for a gondola that must cross it.

For all its qualities, Breckenridge doesn't represent the finest example of skiing, dining, lodging, entertainment or public well-being in the industry. But stir all this together with an element of affordable pricing and you have a mix that few resorts can match. More than anything, Breckenridge is an informal resort—and community—that appeals to people of all ages, income brackets and turning radiuses. Still, as McCarthy insists, it can—and will—become a great deal more. At stake is a plan involving far more than mere lifts and lodges. When the current upgrades are finished—perhaps within the next five years—Breckenridge skiing will have a different face, and the way visitors approach the town may be changed forever. A $16 million gondola with 12-passenger cabins forms the central link in a plan to add both lodging and terrain while replacing the dated skier-services and administration facilities at the base of Peak 8. A new Peak 8 village will feature a lodge with 148 condominium hotel units, a fitness center, year-round ice rink, 12,000-foot conference center and shops. The plan also includes 430 small condos and 12 single-family homesites.

From his corner office in the doomed administration building, McCarthy gazes up at a second development site at the base of Peak 7, which will incorporate a variety of condos into a more intimate new village with complete skier services. The Peak 7 plan also adds 165 acres of intermediate terrain that will form a bookend with Peak 10 on the opposite end of the resort.

Much anticipated, the gondola forms the critical link to it all. Snaking around the mountain in three stages, the lift will connect the main public parking lot in town to both Peaks 7 and 8, complementing the existing bus system to diminish dependence upon automobiles. Soon, visitors may also find a cabriolet shuttle running down historic Main Street, removing more wheels from the mix. A sprawling community, Breckenridge never can make the transition to pedestrian village. But the morning and evening traffic jam may go the way of the mining boom.

So, too, will the disjunctive nature of a lift system long on capacity, short on efficiency. The most immediate fix will transform the No. 4 chair to a quad, then extend it up to ease the commute from the base of Peak 9 to the top of Peak 8, condensing the trip from three lifts to one. A chairlift climbing high into that expert's preserve above timberline, now served by the infamous T-bar, also waits near the top of McCarthy's wish list.

The civic debate over sweeping change continues. Townspeople who decried the fiscal timidity of previous operators aren't certain how to react, like caged lions when the door finally opens. Mamula worries such changes might alter the iconoclastic community, which revels in its status as a National Historic District and cherishes its Victorian architecture, no matter how recently the structure was built. "Everyone knows people come here because they love this town," Mamula says. "Part of the problem with the proposed new development is that it moves the focus of the ski area farther north, away from Peaks 9 and 10. How will that impact the core of the town?"

For the mayor and members of the city council, many issues seem far from settled. "We're in a difficult period with negotiations," Mamula says. "I think Roger McCarthy has come to understand Breckenridge, but the VR owners do not. They wonder why anyone would even question building 500 condos and a tidy little village up on the mountain. For us, it's a matter of making decisions that ensure the uniqueness of the place rather than winding up with something we'll be eternally embarrassed about." McCarthy hopes to cut through the blue haze of bureaucracy in a matter of a few months so construction trucks can roll. Mamula believes agreement is at least a year away.

This translates into an uncertain timetable on which the new intermediate terrain on Peak 7 becomes the only certainty. The six-pack chair and the Chair 4 upgrade will shake out somewhere in the three-year plan, along with the gondola and construction of both villages. Don't expect a ride in a gondola car before 2003-04, perhaps even a year later. Whatever the resolution of the VR plan, Breckenridge continues to change. Along the margins of town, gingerbread increasingly loses out to glass and stone, as more lavish lodges and homes march steadfastly uphill.

Breckenridge recorded its first million-dollar home sale just five years ago. In 2000, the number climbed to 57, including 13 in the $2 million range. No matter how fervently some residents wish it, this isn't your grandfather's Breckenridge, and never will be again. Like powder snow, change is blowing in the wind. Unless discussions between mountain and town fall apart, visitors will discover a very different Breckenridge over the next few years. If not, they'll just have to make do with the same old fun.

[highspeedquad]

So they are planning some changes over the next few years, and some projects, including the gondi, could be done by next year?

That will be exciting.
Breck has gotten more skiers than Vail on good days. Ha! (nothing against Vail, I just like Breck)

This post has been edited by highspeedquad: 23 February 2005 - 01:36 PM

[poloxskier]

The gondola may start construction this summer but the current attitude regarding it doesnt call for it to be started or even finished for a few years, but who knows. There is also a proposal, that is quite a ways off, but they are raising the posibility of a peak 6 expansion and lift serviced terain on the top of peak 7 within the next 10 years.

[highspeedquad]

I heard about those plans when I was searching for more information on the gondi. I hope they finish the gondi soon.

[Boeinglover]

Me too! I have an idea if they replace the snowflake lift with a HSQ they could also put a gondi in that goes to peak 9. I'm dissapointed with the plans for the gondi. It's going to only provide acess to the bases and a couple of parking lots. :(