I was at Sunshine Village today and I went into their equipment yard and happened to notice a old snowcat made by Thiokol. On the plaque the 'T' was missing but there was "hiokol' on it. Does anyone know that Thionkol made snowcats either befor or after they made lifts? <_<
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Thiokol snowcats
Started by Zage, Jan 01 2005 05:38 PM
28 replies to this topic
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Posted 01 January 2005 - 05:57 PM
This site has some pics of them :)
http://www.chameleon...ts/gallery.html
I really like them too
http://www.chameleon...ts/gallery.html
I really like them too
This post has been edited by pusher: 01 January 2005 - 06:01 PM
Jeff
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Posted 01 January 2005 - 06:06 PM
Zage, on Jan 1 2005, 07:00 PM, said:
So they did make snowcats. Before or after they made lifts? and what is your site on snowcats?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i think they did before and during. Also i edited my post. Because i made a mistake. I ment to say that i had a site bookmarked that had some of there pics.
Jeff
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Posted 01 January 2005 - 07:04 PM
History lesson time!
Thiokol Chemical Corporation made, at one time, snowcats, ski lifts, and rockets. We know already how Jan Leonard formed CTEC from Thiokol lifts, kind of a spinoff. Thiokol got the contract to make the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle, so they still do that. The snowcat division was a leader for quite some time; Thiokol made the first commercial hydrostatic-drive cat, among other things. I drove one of their most successful models for a while at Baker- the model 3700A. Most of you have seen that, albeit in a newer form. Thiokol's snowcat division became Logan Manufacturing Company, or LMC, and I'm sure everyone has heard of them. The 3700A became the 3700C, one of the most recognisable snowcats around. It's the one with the single-passenger cab.
Thiokol Chemical Corporation made, at one time, snowcats, ski lifts, and rockets. We know already how Jan Leonard formed CTEC from Thiokol lifts, kind of a spinoff. Thiokol got the contract to make the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle, so they still do that. The snowcat division was a leader for quite some time; Thiokol made the first commercial hydrostatic-drive cat, among other things. I drove one of their most successful models for a while at Baker- the model 3700A. Most of you have seen that, albeit in a newer form. Thiokol's snowcat division became Logan Manufacturing Company, or LMC, and I'm sure everyone has heard of them. The 3700A became the 3700C, one of the most recognisable snowcats around. It's the one with the single-passenger cab.
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Posted 01 January 2005 - 08:43 PM
Didn't Thiokol sell off its snowcats to DeLorean Motor Company or were they in partnership together with it? I remember seeing an article from snowjournal.com about it.
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Posted 01 January 2005 - 11:24 PM
Grouse Mountain in Vancouver still has at least two or three that they still use everyday, they are similar to this one...
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 12:30 AM
liftmech, on Jan 1 2005, 07:04 PM, said:
Thiokol made the first commercial hydrostatic-drive cat, among other things.
And before that Thiokol had a gas engine model 2100 that was a trip to operate. The tracks were powered by a differential and had two levers used for hydraulic braking on each of the tracks. If you wanted to go right, you pulled back on the right hand stick and the right track slowed so the vehicle turned to the right. Sometimes on steep slopes the engine would cut out which posed a little problem in that the hydraulic pump also stopped pumping oil to the grake actuators - very exciting to start freewheeling down the slope! Newer models then featured a "panic button" that hooked the hydraulic pump to a battery operated electic motor. When the engine quit, you simply hit the panic button and voila, you still had turning and stopping capability - very advanced technology!
This post has been edited by ccslider: 02 January 2005 - 12:32 AM
#13
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 10:20 AM
I never drove the 2100, but we've got a Spryte here which is probably basically the same. At Baker I first drove a Bombardier 260, which was their version of the 2100. One really had to haul on the brake lever to turn the cat, which also didn't exactly turn in loose snow.
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 11:27 AM
LMC and DMC have some interesting history. Chris Bradford did a great summary in Snow Journal (see below). You still can see some cats with the DMC logo. The hydrostatic series was quite popular in the western resorts as it was the first design that could successfully deal with wet heavy snow – nicknamed the "Hydro Hog" by snow cat operators.
Tonight show old host Johnny Carson (before Jay Leno) was an original investor in DMC and received one of the first cars off the line. Perhaps this was a sign of things to come as the car ran for only 150 miles before breaking down.
Also of interest the "Back to the Future" movie series featured a Delorean car. Perhaps if DMC had adapted the flux capacitor to the snow cat line they would still be in business.
Also of interest is Pisten Bully - an hydrostatic cat of German manufacture that was on the market about 5 years before the LMC 3700 was released.
http://www.pistenbul...glish/index.php
This link illustrates how greasy Delorean is.
http://eightiesclub....d.com/id305.htm
Ryan B
Thiokol, pimps of the ski industry
Wednesday, September 18, 2002 06:14 AM GMT
by Chris Bradford
Recently, while researching DeLorean cars to satisfy a curiosity, I uncovered a piece of very interesting information. The fact: DeLorean also manufactured snow cats.
The idea of a DeLorean snow cat triggered a new curiosity. So, I set off in my usual frenzied search for information, and what I uncovered, is an astounding story beginning with Thiokol, and ending somewhere between NASA, Dopplmayr, and Chapter 11.
Originally, this was supposed to be an article about the DeLorean snow cat. One thing led to another, and before I knew it, DeLorean wasn't really the center of the story.
Lets start with Thiokol in the present day. Thiokol currently manufactures rocket boosters, including the boosters on NASA's space shuttle fleet.
Prior to the 1970's, Thiokol was a leader in the manufacture of mechanical systems. They designed and built chair lifts, and manufactured a line of snow grooming equipment. Even today, you'll spot the occasional Thiokol lift or Thiokol snow cat.
During the 1970's, NASA was in the research and development phase of its reusable space vehicle program. Thiokol came up to the plate in 1974, and was awarded a contracts for solid rocket booster research, design and testing.
Two men employed at Thiokol in 1974, were Jan Leonard and Mark Ballantyne. Both men got their start in the lift industry by working for the two leading lift manufacturers. One at Thiokol, and the other at Hall Ski Lifts.
Lift manufacturing at Thiokol continued until 1976, when NASA accepted their design for the space shuttle rocket boosters, changing the company's fate. Deciding in the interest of focusing on rockets, Thiokol decided to exit the ski industry. Jan Leonard and Mark Ballantyne left the company to form their own company, CTEC.
The newly formed CTEC took 2 years to evolve, and in 1978, they purchased Thiokol's lift designs and inventory. The first lift manufactured under the CTEC name, was a triple chair built for Seven Springs, PA.
Thiokol began looking for a buyer interested in purchasing their snow cat/groomer business.
Shifting focus for a moment to DeLorean...
Practically everyone is familiar with the DeLorean car. Yes, its the model used in the movie "Back to The Future".
The DeLorean car, a radical new sports car with gull wing doors, was manufactured in Scottland between 1981 and 1983 by the DeLorean Manufacturing Company (DMC), founded by General Motors veteran John DeLorean. The manufacturing facility and DMC project was financed by the British government starting in 1979, in the interest of creating jobs in Ireland.
Unfortunately, only 8,583 of these cars were ever produced, and DMC came to an abrupt end amid accusations of scandal. John DeLorean was charged with misappropriation of public funds, and the DeLorean car, was finished.
How does this relate to Thiokol?
John DeLorean, sometime between 1978 and 1979, picked up a personal project for his own enjoyment. He purchased Thiokol's snow cat manufacturing business, and renamed it Logan Manufacturing Company, after its location of Logan, Utah. Logan was made a division of DMC and became known as LMC.
LMC seemingly thrived under the direction of John DeLorean, but it became rumored that funds from the British government intended for DMC were secretly funneled to LMC. None of this was ever proven.
LMC continued to grow into the late 1980's, producing DeLorean's snow cats.
In 1988, John DeLorean was caught in a drug raid, suspected of cocaine trafficking. Mounting legal expenses forced him to sell the Logan Manufacturing Company. He was later acquitted of the charges.
Several employees of LMC in 1988 stepped up to purchase the company. The business slowly declined throughout the 1990's, ending in Chapter 11 bankruptcy sometime around 2000.
LMC snow cats are still a common sight on the slopes, although most are aging with the grace of a lumbering monster. Next time you see one, look at the simple LMC logo. Compare it with the DMC logo of a DeLorean car. The two logos have a similiar style ... futuristic "D" or "L", followed by the same styled futuristic "MC".
Final notes...
In the years following the acquisition of Thiokol's lifts, CTEC grew steadily and merged with Garaventa AG in 1999. Forming Garaventa CTEC, the North American division of the Garaventa Group.
In 2001, the Garaventa Group merged with Dopplmayr, another large world-wide lift manufacturer.
So, now you know the story of Thiokol in the ski industry, and how it ends somewhere between NASA, Dopplmayr, and Chapter 11.
Tonight show old host Johnny Carson (before Jay Leno) was an original investor in DMC and received one of the first cars off the line. Perhaps this was a sign of things to come as the car ran for only 150 miles before breaking down.
Also of interest the "Back to the Future" movie series featured a Delorean car. Perhaps if DMC had adapted the flux capacitor to the snow cat line they would still be in business.
Also of interest is Pisten Bully - an hydrostatic cat of German manufacture that was on the market about 5 years before the LMC 3700 was released.
http://www.pistenbul...glish/index.php
This link illustrates how greasy Delorean is.
http://eightiesclub....d.com/id305.htm
Ryan B
Thiokol, pimps of the ski industry
Wednesday, September 18, 2002 06:14 AM GMT
by Chris Bradford
Recently, while researching DeLorean cars to satisfy a curiosity, I uncovered a piece of very interesting information. The fact: DeLorean also manufactured snow cats.
The idea of a DeLorean snow cat triggered a new curiosity. So, I set off in my usual frenzied search for information, and what I uncovered, is an astounding story beginning with Thiokol, and ending somewhere between NASA, Dopplmayr, and Chapter 11.
Originally, this was supposed to be an article about the DeLorean snow cat. One thing led to another, and before I knew it, DeLorean wasn't really the center of the story.
Lets start with Thiokol in the present day. Thiokol currently manufactures rocket boosters, including the boosters on NASA's space shuttle fleet.
Prior to the 1970's, Thiokol was a leader in the manufacture of mechanical systems. They designed and built chair lifts, and manufactured a line of snow grooming equipment. Even today, you'll spot the occasional Thiokol lift or Thiokol snow cat.
During the 1970's, NASA was in the research and development phase of its reusable space vehicle program. Thiokol came up to the plate in 1974, and was awarded a contracts for solid rocket booster research, design and testing.
Two men employed at Thiokol in 1974, were Jan Leonard and Mark Ballantyne. Both men got their start in the lift industry by working for the two leading lift manufacturers. One at Thiokol, and the other at Hall Ski Lifts.
Lift manufacturing at Thiokol continued until 1976, when NASA accepted their design for the space shuttle rocket boosters, changing the company's fate. Deciding in the interest of focusing on rockets, Thiokol decided to exit the ski industry. Jan Leonard and Mark Ballantyne left the company to form their own company, CTEC.
The newly formed CTEC took 2 years to evolve, and in 1978, they purchased Thiokol's lift designs and inventory. The first lift manufactured under the CTEC name, was a triple chair built for Seven Springs, PA.
Thiokol began looking for a buyer interested in purchasing their snow cat/groomer business.
Shifting focus for a moment to DeLorean...
Practically everyone is familiar with the DeLorean car. Yes, its the model used in the movie "Back to The Future".
The DeLorean car, a radical new sports car with gull wing doors, was manufactured in Scottland between 1981 and 1983 by the DeLorean Manufacturing Company (DMC), founded by General Motors veteran John DeLorean. The manufacturing facility and DMC project was financed by the British government starting in 1979, in the interest of creating jobs in Ireland.
Unfortunately, only 8,583 of these cars were ever produced, and DMC came to an abrupt end amid accusations of scandal. John DeLorean was charged with misappropriation of public funds, and the DeLorean car, was finished.
How does this relate to Thiokol?
John DeLorean, sometime between 1978 and 1979, picked up a personal project for his own enjoyment. He purchased Thiokol's snow cat manufacturing business, and renamed it Logan Manufacturing Company, after its location of Logan, Utah. Logan was made a division of DMC and became known as LMC.
LMC seemingly thrived under the direction of John DeLorean, but it became rumored that funds from the British government intended for DMC were secretly funneled to LMC. None of this was ever proven.
LMC continued to grow into the late 1980's, producing DeLorean's snow cats.
In 1988, John DeLorean was caught in a drug raid, suspected of cocaine trafficking. Mounting legal expenses forced him to sell the Logan Manufacturing Company. He was later acquitted of the charges.
Several employees of LMC in 1988 stepped up to purchase the company. The business slowly declined throughout the 1990's, ending in Chapter 11 bankruptcy sometime around 2000.
LMC snow cats are still a common sight on the slopes, although most are aging with the grace of a lumbering monster. Next time you see one, look at the simple LMC logo. Compare it with the DMC logo of a DeLorean car. The two logos have a similiar style ... futuristic "D" or "L", followed by the same styled futuristic "MC".
Final notes...
In the years following the acquisition of Thiokol's lifts, CTEC grew steadily and merged with Garaventa AG in 1999. Forming Garaventa CTEC, the North American division of the Garaventa Group.
In 2001, the Garaventa Group merged with Dopplmayr, another large world-wide lift manufacturer.
So, now you know the story of Thiokol in the ski industry, and how it ends somewhere between NASA, Dopplmayr, and Chapter 11.
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 12:42 PM
For the BR snowcats: http://www.industrial.camoplast.com/
Pisten Bully snowcats: http://pistenbullyusa.com/
Those are the two types of snowcats offered here in America.
Pisten Bully snowcats: http://pistenbullyusa.com/
Those are the two types of snowcats offered here in America.
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 02:32 PM
Europe only has 3 manufacturers. Pisten, Prinoth (Leitner) and one other one I don't know the name of.
There were like 5 here in North America in the early 90s, but BR and PB were a lot more popular.
There were like 5 here in North America in the early 90s, but BR and PB were a lot more popular.
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 07:00 PM
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 08:03 PM
since when did camoplast tracks buy out Bombardier??? Or did Bombardier buy out Camoplast? Camoplast BTW makes OEM and aftermarket snowmobile tracks... Bombardier/Ski-POO.... was stupid for selling their rec products division...I was under the impression that the rec products division was supposed to go back to the original bombardier family....Oh well...
Hall Doubles RULE the East!!!
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