Poloxskier brought the topic up in another thread, but I thought it had more relevance here. On older Hall lifts, as well as Murray-Lattas of all vintages, one can see the bullwheel being driven by a ring-and-pinion setup. Aside from being loud and needing lubrication every day or two, they do offer the advantage of leaving the space under the bullwheel open. Reduction in the gearbox is also not quite as much, allowing the box to be smaller and with less stages. They have pretty much fallen out of favour in the last twenty or more years, although you may see them on large lifts as a last-resort evacuation method (a hydrostatic motor directly drives the bullwheel in the event of a gearbox or drive shaft failure). One example of that is the Silver Queen gondola at Ajax.
Has anybody seen any other type of lift drive trains, aside from the vault and shaft method or the more modern overhead drive?
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Lift drive trains
Started by liftmech, Dec 11 2004 04:53 AM
21 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 11 December 2004 - 05:02 AM
Its not exactly a different drive type but one of the most interesting applications I have seen for a poma was at Zermatt near the top. The poma is one of the lifts you have to take to get over to Italy. The poma was a design similar to that of the Storm King but I believe it was of an older vintage. The lift was an electric drive but there is no electric grid on that part of the mountain. There was a diesel generator that powered the electric motor. When I was up there we were wanting to ride it the lift operator was trying his hardest to pull start the generator. I dont speak any german but all that I could understand was 
diesel! I would think in an area thats entirely above treeline and you know will get really cold that diesel just wouldnt make sense. It was up and running after the next lap though.
diesel! I would think in an area thats entirely above treeline and you know will get really cold that diesel just wouldnt make sense. It was up and running after the next lap though.
-Bryan
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
#4
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Posted 11 December 2004 - 05:43 PM
Thats what I thought too especially with the possibility of the diesel gelling in generator in cold conditions.
-Bryan
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
#6
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Posted 12 December 2004 - 05:00 AM
Is the storm king strictly electric or is there a back up motor or generator?
-Bryan
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
#7
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Posted 27 December 2004 - 10:25 PM
How about a Borvig Triple with a 300 hp E-motor and a Ford Marine Diesel coupled to a belt drive... then to a 90 degree.
A homebuilt t-bar with a wormgear drive, powered by a Ford 460 with a direct taper fit and adapter collar to the gearbox...I seen that...don't quite remember where...my dad had a picture though...
A mueller t-bar with a silent chain (like a HYVO snowmobile chain)
direct to a 90 degree. The chain ran inside a sealed gear case. Also, just like a snowmobile... I believe it was a mod from the original belt drive.
A roebling t-bar at Mt. Whittier NH, looks like a willys Tornado Inline Flathead 6 to a 3 speed manual then to a dana 20 transfer case and an output shaft to a 90 degree. Oddly enough a factory setup for no e-motor.
A homebuilt t-bar with a wormgear drive, powered by a Ford 460 with a direct taper fit and adapter collar to the gearbox...I seen that...don't quite remember where...my dad had a picture though...
A mueller t-bar with a silent chain (like a HYVO snowmobile chain)
direct to a 90 degree. The chain ran inside a sealed gear case. Also, just like a snowmobile... I believe it was a mod from the original belt drive.
A roebling t-bar at Mt. Whittier NH, looks like a willys Tornado Inline Flathead 6 to a 3 speed manual then to a dana 20 transfer case and an output shaft to a 90 degree. Oddly enough a factory setup for no e-motor.
Hall Doubles RULE the East!!!
#9
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Posted 28 December 2004 - 05:59 PM
poloxskier, on Dec 12 2004, 06:00 AM, said:
Is the storm king strictly electric or is there a back up motor or generator?
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Strictly electric. There is no need for a backup engine- just release the stick and ski away in the event of a power failure
Member, Department of Ancient Technology, Colorado chapter.
#10
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Posted 29 December 2004 - 01:22 AM
Oh ok. I was just wondering if you ran a generatior in the event of a power failure you could still operate the lift.
-Bryan
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
#11
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Hall Junkie, Mueller Nut, Grease Gorilla
- Interests:Other than the obvious....<br /><br />Polaris Snowmobiles<br /><br />WWII Jeeps<br /><br />Ford Trucks
Posted 29 December 2004 - 12:16 PM
Allan, on Dec 28 2004, 12:05 PM, said:
The Granite chair evac was a ford straight six coupled to a 4 speed manual (complete with reverse) to a chain drive to the input shaft.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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ha ha ha.. good old ford 300....4.9l right? I can see it now...chairlift drag racing... :help:
Hall Doubles RULE the East!!!
#12
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Posted 23 February 2005 - 10:27 PM
Do the older Miner Denvers use a gear driven bullwheels. Noteably the Headwall at Steamboat, It seemed to have an inner ring to the drive bullwheel and I was wondering if this had to do with the drive or does it have another function?
-Bryan
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
#13
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Posted 24 February 2005 - 04:58 AM
I only saw that lift once when I rode it and I can't remember what the top looked like. Does it have a drive shaft directly under the bullwheel? If not, then the gear ring is for a rig-and-pinion setup.
Member, Department of Ancient Technology, Colorado chapter.
#14
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Posted 24 February 2005 - 10:19 AM
I couldnt tell, if there is a directly connected drive shaft it wasnt visible but I really couldn't tell I just noticed the smaller ring inside of the outer rim of the bullwheel and thought that it may have something to do with the drive.
-Bryan
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
Theres a place for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.
"You could say that a mountain is alot like a woman, once you think you know every inch of her and you're about to dip your skis into some soft, deep powder...Bam, you've got two broken legs, cracked ribs and you pay your $20 just to let her punch your lift ticket all over again"
#15
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 01:19 PM
At Manning Park Ski Area they're only 10km from the grid. Last time I was there (5 years ago about), they still ran the ski hill on a diesel generator. It ran two lifts and a few buildings, as well as a tow rope. I don't know why they ran the T-bar on its own diesel.
#16
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Posted 25 April 2005 - 06:15 PM
I've seen an example of the Miner-Denver drivetrain arrangement described above laid out with a wound-rotor AC drive motor driving the input shaft of a Falk right-angle speed reducer. There is a spur-gear on the reducer's output shaft. which is actually a chain sprocket - the gear/sprocket is in internal mesh with a chain which is welded at the links to the bottom of the drive bullwheel.
Another arrangement I've seen in ancient Poma doubles has two motors: one motor is inline-shaft coupled to a right angle speed reducer (which looks like it belongs on a Poma surface lift), which drives the bullwheel through a spur-gear/bullgear arrangement (like the old Hall's). There is a second motor mounted below the main driveline in parallel, with a V-belt coupling it to the main driveshaft (I've seen this twice - both lifts are long gone). Does anybody have any explanation of this? Does one of the motors act in place of the resistor pack (wound rotor again)? The whole arrangement is very magnetically noisy until it reaches running speed.
Another arrangement I've seen in ancient Poma doubles has two motors: one motor is inline-shaft coupled to a right angle speed reducer (which looks like it belongs on a Poma surface lift), which drives the bullwheel through a spur-gear/bullgear arrangement (like the old Hall's). There is a second motor mounted below the main driveline in parallel, with a V-belt coupling it to the main driveshaft (I've seen this twice - both lifts are long gone). Does anybody have any explanation of this? Does one of the motors act in place of the resistor pack (wound rotor again)? The whole arrangement is very magnetically noisy until it reaches running speed.
#17
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 05:08 AM
Matt, on Apr 1 2005, 02:19 PM, said:
At Manning Park Ski Area they're only 10km from the grid. Last time I was there (5 years ago about), they still ran the ski hill on a diesel generator. It ran two lifts and a few buildings, as well as a tow rope. I don't know why they ran the T-bar on its own diesel.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Probably because the main gen set can't keep up with the demand of powering an additional motor. Baker is 30km from the grid and all lifts are diesel-powered save the handle tow. Chair 1, as well as old chair 2, had their backup engines coupled to the high-speed shaft via a very long chain. No fun, and very noisy.
Member, Department of Ancient Technology, Colorado chapter.
#19
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 03:51 PM
Santa fe had a M-D with the described set up even the falk gear box. Ours had the gas back up engine directly coupled to the drive shaft on the electric motor. To make this set up look even more jury rigged the gas engine A. still had a manual transmission with shifter knob and B. had the cowling and covers from a farm tractor
#20
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Posted 28 April 2005 - 05:58 PM
In days gone buy it wasn't that uncommon to have stationary industrial engines enclosed in farm-tractor like cowling.
I'd hate to be on the lift when the primary drive fails, and the liftie doesn't know how to drive stick.
I'd hate to be on the lift when the primary drive fails, and the liftie doesn't know how to drive stick.
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