Skilifts.org / SORT Forum

LuvPow, on 08 October 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

http://www.desmog.ca...sunday-deadline
Article out today regarding

LuvPow, on 10 October 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

It looks like a detachable footing?

I don't understand this development at all. BC already has many large resorts that are too remote. This will be another Revelstoke or Kicking Horse...big plans until the money runs out. Jumbo may build a lift or two built but I don't see the 20-lift/6,000 bed complex ever happening. Panorama down the road serves the existing market just fine. There's a reason it has taken them since 1991 to get some footings in the ground days before the deadline to build something. If the BC government decides this is "substantial progress" towards building a ski resort, I have a bridge to sell them!

The best part of that article is that this company already convinced the government to incorporate a municipality in a wilderness with no residents or buildings to get $1.1 million in tax dollars.

new article

http://www.calgaryhe...9637/story.html


The controversial Jumbo Glacier resort near Invermere is in a holding pattern after its environmental certificate expired on the weekend, but resort officials say they’re still on track to open the day lodge and a lift by next winter.
At midnight on Sunday, the $1-billion ski resort’s environmental certificate — which has been in place for 10 years — expired.
It means no additional construction will take place at the site, which ultimately includes the construction of 5,500 condos and up to 23 ski lifts, until B.C. Minister of Environment Mary Polack rules on whether the resort has “substantially started” the project.
Officials with the province said she will ask Glacier Resorts, Ktunaxa Nation Council and the Shuswap Indian Bands to provide any relevant information toward its review.
“The process will take some time,” said an emailed statement from David Karn, a spokesman for B.C. Environment. “However for the benefit of all parties the process will be conducted as efficiently as possible, while providing appropriate time for information gathering and analysis.
“There is no set time frame in which the minister must make the determination about whether a project was substantially started by the deadline.”
Environmental groups suggest the resort hasn’t done enough work — nor submitted the proper studies on the work — to have the certificate upheld.
“We’re talking about a billion-dollar proposed project,” said Robyn Duncan, program manager at Wildsight in the Columbia Valley. “They’ve had 10 years and all they’ve been able to achieve is pouring some concrete.
“They’ve been really active over the summer, but a lot of it was work to satisfy the commitments. There’s a lot of heavy machinery but it’s not actually construction.”
Officials with the resort, however, said they’re confident they’ve done enough work this year to get through the review.
“We were working on the substantial startup construction, which is a condition of our environmental certificate,” said Grant Costello, senior vice-president with Glacier Resorts Ltd. “We started around the middle of August and made preparations which included ... installing four bridges, building road access, clearing land and setting up foundations for buildings.
“We’ve managed to get a start on three structures — a day lodge, a service building, which will house generating systems and other mechanical, and the first chairlift.”
Although they must stop construction now that the certificate has expired, Costello said they will still be able to work on some environmental issues such as setting up erosion controls and putting the site to rest for the year.
Some of that work is a response to an administrative audit released by the province’s Environmental Assessment Office, which found that the resort was not in compliance with some of their pre-construction commitments — including concerns around streamflow, fish habitat and water quality monitoring.
Costello said some of the issues are related to a road outside of the resort that could potentially release sediment into the creek.
“We’ve put in a bunch of mitigation responses to that,” he said.
Otherwise, Costello said the construction is still on track — provided the decision by the minister goes in their favour.
“We’ll prepare for next year to carry on and complete the day lodge and the lift and the building and hopefully start on the gondola as well,” he said, noting they hope to open by next winter. “We could be operating by this time next year with a gondola and a chairlift.”
The upscale resort has divided the community between those who want a boon to local business and others who fear destruction of the pristine wilderness and grizzly bear habitat.
cderworiz@calgaryherald.com
© Copyright © The Calgary Herald

In my opinion, this is an exciting project. What obviously sets it apart from the other BC ski areas is that it has the glacier allowing skiing year round. In that respect, it could become one of the most important ski areas in North America. Of course that does not guarantee financial success. If this was 100 miles from Denver along I-70, it would definitely be successful. The location will hurt it, no doubt. In retrospect, I feel that it would have been better to put the resources that developed Kicking Horse, Revelstoke, and Panorama into the Jumbo area, since snow would basically be guaranteed, unlike everywhere else in North America. If the BC government could have encouraged that decades ago, this probably could have been similar to Whistler, but with better snow. All this said, I hope the project does advance far enough to at least get access to some decent glacier skiing.

Location won't be an issue.. there's millions of Albertans right next door, all with more money than they know what to do with, haha!

missouriskier, on 18 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Interesting statement. Might it be wise, now that Kicking Horse,Revelstoke and Panorama are in the ground and running, to say the opposite of your statement. It is now smarter to ask the Jumbo people that want to invest in a growing resort or to make one bigger, that they should put their money into Kicking Horse, Revelstoke, Panorama or any number of a dozen ski resorts that have grown from tiny to much larger in the twenty years the Jumbo people have been smoking funny stuff and blowing smoke rings. Besides, putting groomers on a glacier might cause it to melt faster. For resorts already built, this might be ok, For a new one, not yet stated, well maybe its time to start asking some questions. Just my two cents.
This post has been edited by Andy1962: 18 October 2014 - 03:39 PM

Andy1962, on 18 October 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Simply reversing the idea does not mean it is valid. The reason for suggesting it would have been a great mega resort in the first place is that it gain the primary advantage associated with glacier that will draw enough people without the other competition. However investing in these smaller resort does not mean it will see the same growth or returns, and as such it may not be worth investing at all.

Phalanger, on 19 October 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

I'm not convinced that the three existing resorts are financially viable for the long run as they are, and a large investment of money in them does not guarantee success either. Right now they all have very skeletal lift systems accessing large amounts of terrain, and that is probably the only way to have a good chance of profitability. The acquisition and maintenance costs for a huge, mega-resort type lift system would not be a wise investment or viable long-term, I believe.

The last time I read through the master plan for Jumbo, which admittedly has been two or three years ago, I recall that the scale of the project was reduced significantly from an earlier plan. This included reducing the size of the lift system. At that time, I was disappointed because I was hoping that this would be another enormous resort and I didn't like seeing the size reduced. Even back then, I realized the chances were slim for the whole thing to be built in the near future because money isn't unlimited.

Now, I think that the reality is that the resort would still be a nice large resort if fully built out. I don't feel it has to be built to full size to realize the benefits of Jumbo's high elevation and glacier, though. Probably the right size to start with would be 4-6 lifts with a small village in the valley, and it could be open for good year-round skiing without huge costs (relative to the full build-out size) sunk in the construction or committed to maintenance. With just modest skier visit days, this could probably be successful.

another article discussing some of the issues of this location
http://www.desmog.ca...med-mountaineer

You have to drive 40 km up a very sketchy logging road with multiple slide areas... again, driving right past Panorama. It makes no sense to me. BC and N.America do not need another remote, expert terrain ski area with this amount of issues, both environmental and financially. Oberti seems to have scaled back his vision here tremendously to now 1 fixed grip lift from his grandiose plan earlier.

This is why.. he has moved his focus elsewhere....
http://www.therockym...ario-investors/

http://www.for.gov.b...rt_Proposal.pdf

It is the same plan only a new location... the same issue though without the opposition... very remote, no roads ...
He seems to me to be the past of what ski resorts are, not the future. He keeps recreating the same resort plan at different locations.. the Intrawest way. Whistler works because of its location, not because of the village. Oberti quotes in his literature the success of Kicking Horse. Is doing under 100,000 skier visits successful? I do not think it is. He thinks it is successful because he got paid and his vision was built, he does not care about the long term operation of a resort. He moves on to his next project..he is a good salesman, that is it. I would rather see some new and fresh ideas for a ski area... something that fits with the community better. Like Revelstoke, they barely survived their grandiose plans, but they carved out a niche for themselves and are gaining skier visits..but they are still well below 200.000 skier visits. In my book a area needs to pull in 300.000 to be considered doing well.
We need to look at the future and continue changing, not stay in the past and build these monstrosity resorts.... look at Silverton, Colorado, they fit into their environment and they are successful, you have to go with what you have I think... anyway...

Here is the letter from BC Provincial Gov't to developer..a little dry reading

http://a100.gov.bc.c...13301694842.pdf

Jumbo could succeed if:

1) An additional resort in the BC Rockies, to supplement Panorama, Kicking Horse, Fernie and Revelstoke, creates critical mass to attract destination skiers
2) The prospect of glacier skiing is sufficiently unique to draw destination skiers
3) Ski mad Calgary continues to be one of North America's faster growing and wealthiest cities

Number 3 is likely, the others are not.

Doug, on 28 October 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think I would have to disagree with all three of your "scenarios"
critical mass? well... maybe in 45 years, but not now... have you visited those resorts? there are no busy periods to speak of. Glacier skiing, attracting people, sure..but enough to pay the bills and put money in the bank..I don't think so. Ski mad Calgary? ahh I would say snowmobile mad Alberta....
Albertan's drive right past Kicking Horse, Panorama and Fernie already... and they could use the business, not share it at this time.

new article...

http://www.huffingto...kushpmg00000063

Jumbo Was The Only B.C. Municipality That Didn't Vote


Posted: 11/16/2014 1:56 am EST Updated: 11/16/2014 1:59 am EST



When most of us think of a small town, we think of friendly neighbours and quiet streets -- the type of place where you know almost everyone. I'm privileged to be elected as mayor of Invermere, B.C., which is pretty close to being a perfect small town.
However, about 55 kilometres from Invermere, down rough old logging and mining roads, lies Jumbo, another kind of "small town."
But this "small town," also known as the Jumbo Glacier Mountain Resort Municipality, is completely empty -- a wilderness with no residents and no buildings.
On Saturday, when every other town in B.C. voted for new municipal leaders, there was no voting in Jumbo.
How did it come to this?
Glacier Resorts Ltd. has wanted to build a 6,300-bed ski resort on Crown land for 24 years. While the proponents envision a village of condos, shops and hotels and more than 20 ski lifts, many locals like myself oppose a new dense urban development in an area already awash with ski resorts operating below capacity.
(A 2008 random survey by McAllister Opinion Research found 63 per cent of Kootenay residents oppose the resort, with 19 per cent in favour and 18 per cent undecided.)
Faced with strong local opposition, the province has tried to fit a round peg into a square hole. Instead of admitting it won't fit, the province has changed the hole until that peg fits.
The only reason there is a "municipality" here in the mountain wilderness is because in 2012, the provincial government amended the Local Government Act to allow the creation of a municipality without residents.
Next, the province appointed a mayor and two councillors. And then a provincial order-in-council mandated that the council adhere to the terms of Jumbo Glacier Resort's Master Plan -- not to citizens.
This series of events ruffled many feathers, but what came next was even worse. Jumbo received a $260,000 provincial grant and $50,000 in federal gas tax money.
Why would a "town" with no residents and no services require taxpayer dollars? Well, there are bridges to build and infrastructure to construct before real estate can be sold. Given the Jumbo Glacier Resort is a private development, you'd think the infrastructure would be fully funded by the developer - but not in the case of Jumbo.
Jumbo Glacier Mountain Resort Municipality has asked for $200,000 a year from the province for the next five years. In its five-year financial plan, the municipality is predicting $0 in tax revenue, $0 in funding from the developer and 100 per cent of funding to come from government grants.
At the recent Union of B.C. Municipalities convention, my motion to oppose provincial funding for towns without residents was adopted unanimously by local politicians from all over our province.
Aside from grasping for taxpayer dollars, the reason Jumbo municipality exists is to circumnavigate a key condition of the resort's environmental assessment certificate, which dictates that final land use decisions be made by local government. Of course, the intent was for elected, accountable local government to make the decisions, not a puppet appointed council.
Residents of the Columbia Valley want to map their region's own future. The environmental assessment was focused solely on mitigating environmental impacts. The question of whether we want a dense urban development and private real estate speculation in the mountain wilderness has never been posed to our community.
The environmental assessment certificate for the Jumbo resort expired on Oct. 12, unless the province rules that the proponent has made substantial progress. In yet another case of corners being cut, the resort was hastily laying foundations the week before the deadline in a last-minute push to show progress.
Three days before the construction deadline, B.C.'s Environmental Assessment Office wrote to Glacier Resorts saying the company was not in compliance with three pre-construction conditions, primarily relating to water quality and fish habitat monitoring.
Last week, a debate at the B.C. Legislature raised the question of whether the foundation for a lodge was built in a Class 4 Avalanche Zone.
The big question now is when the province of B.C. will call an end to the farce of the "town" called Jumbo. The cost of failing to act is at least $1.3 million in taxpayer funding, the selloff of Crown land at bargain basement prices and, most of all, the complete disregard for the basic concept of what democracies are ... and what small towns should be.

http://www.huffingto...kushpmg00000063
Jumbo Glacier Resort Sees B.C. Environmental Certificate Pulled By Province



CP | By Keven Drews, The Canadian Press

VANCOUVER - Developers of a controversial billion-dollar ski resort that has been decades in the making will have "to start from scratch," said British Columbia's environment minister.
The provincial government announced Thursday that the environmental assessment certificate for Jumbo Glacier Resort had expired.
The resort, which has been repeatedly challenged in court by First Nations and environmental groups, received its first environmental certificate in 2004.

The certificate was extended in 2009, with an expiry date of Oct. 12, 2014, but the extension document stated all approved projects must be "substantially started" under provincial law within the time limit set out, something that Environment Minister Mary Polak said just hasn't happened.
"In making my decision, I had focused on the physical activities that had taken place at the project site," said Polak. "While it is clear that some construction has started, I was not convinced that the physical activity undertaken as of Oct. 12, 2014, meets the threshold of a substantially started project."
Resort spokesman Tommaso Oberti, vice-president of the Pheidias Group, said in an emailed statement that directors are reviewing the minister's decision but can take a number of courses of action.
"Jumbo Glacier Resort would be the premier ski destination on the continent, and the recent poor winter showed us why, in the age of global warming, new ski resorts should be built at appropriate elevations and in the right climate zones," he said.
A document listing Polak's reasons stated the developers had undertaken nine projects on the site as of Oct. 12, 2014.
They included a slab and foundation preparations on the day lodge, a slab on the service building, foundation anchors for the quad chairlift, and temporary and permanent bridges on a forest service road. Workers also drilled and tested a well for potable water and improved about four kilometres of the service road.
When built out, the resort's base would have been 104 hectares in size, boasted a hotel with 6,250 "bed units," as well as condominiums and related amenities, the document stated.
"They don't posses a certificate, whether or not the project is dead is a matter of whether or not the proponents decide to start over again in the process. I mean that's an option open to them. That's not a decision for me to make at this point."
She said developers would have "to start from scratch."
Polak said B.C. ministries responsible for communities, forests, lands and natural resources will now have to analyze their next step.
The B.C. government granted municipal status to Glacier Resorts in November 2012, appointing a three-member council and providing a quarter million dollars as a budget.
Opposition New Democrat Leader John Horgan said Jumbo was a bad idea from the beginning and he called on the government to stop spending money on a community without any residents.
"The good news today for the people of the Kootenays is Jumbo will remain wild. Now, the next step is let's not pretend there’s a town there because there isn't," Horgan said.
Joe Foy, of the environmental group Wilderness Committee, called the decision "great news," and said the government must now grant the area protected status so another proposal doesn't endanger wildlife.
"We knew this project was already on thin ice," he said.

LuvPow, on 19 June 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Financial guys meet mother nature. Jumbo glacier had the largest meltdown in 20 years during the summer of 2015. Scientists have been monitoring it for 20 years, measuring the recession of the leading edge. Watch video here:

http://www.theweathe...o/4570771409001

Patagonia Inc. is fighting this project now too: http://www.patagonia...lism/Jumbo-Wild

Supreme Court ruling removes barrier for developing year-round ski resort on sacred first Nation land
Proposed project in B.C. pits Indigenous religious rights against public interest in Crown land

November 2, 2017

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...esort-1.4381902
This post has been edited by Andy1962: 02 November 2017 - 11:07 AM

It just won't work unless easy and cheap access to the area improves, there's a lot of ski resorts in the Kootenay-Rockies and surrounding regions and not a lot of major highways or airports. Only remotely viable solution I could see would be to build a passenger terminal at the Fairmont Airport, it's about 20 minutes from Invermere and sports a runway capable of supporting jets but is at the present time not developed for commercial flights and given that the airport is owned by another resort I don't see it happening.

The whole build it and they will come idea doesn't work unless they have a way of getting there...

Jumbo is about 3 hours from Calgary which seem pretty reasonable. If it's a really cool ski area people will come. The bigger problems seem to the local opposition and lack of investment to build it.

Calgary airport to Jumbo would be 175 km Calgary to Castle Junction (Freeway), another 105 to Radium (mostly 2 lane), and then 74 to Jumbo (twisty forest roads), So 350 total at best 3.5 hours non-stop in good roads with no traffic, closures, or accidents or .... When I go to Kicking Horse I budget 4.5 hours in winter and that is only 275 km. Cranbrook to Jumbo would be much smarter but small airport with not too many flights (737 only at best and usually Dash 8 - at most 6 flights a day). Honestly, why go all the way to Jumbo, driving past Louise and Sunshine when flying into Calgary. As noted even Kicking Horse is closer to Calgary. Or Fly into Kelowna and go to Revelstoke only 200km. Panorama already has trouble getting enough people. Just will not work!

An a side note, drove past Valemont this summer - even worse situation!

TME