14 replies to this topic

[bramat]

Can someone explain the whole merger process when CTEC hooked up with Garaventa, and how Garaventa CTEC merged with Dopp? Somehow the Garaventa name was dropped in this process..

www.garaventa.com seems to indicate to me that this lift manufacturer still operates its own business just no longer in the US- like they lost their own identity in North America with the merger with Dopp. Im puzzled. . does anyone have a clear explanation?

and where does Leitner and Poma fit into this too? is Poma in operation outside of the US? are there very many lift manufacturers that make detach that DONT have market share in the US?

brandon
seattle

[floridaskier]

Poma has a seperate European operation. Garaventa might be part of Doppelmayr in Europe, I'm not sure.

[liftmech]

Ahh, corporate mergers...
GaraventaCTEC was the American division of Garaventa AG of Europe. Garaventa developed a partnership with CTEC in 1993 and dissolved the partnership when they sold their shares of CTEC to Doppelmayr. Part of the deal was that Garaventa agreed to cease any aerial lift sales in the US and Canada. Today we have DoppelmayrCTEC, whic appears to be in the process of dropping CTEC's high-speed section and Doppelmayr's fixed-grip line. In Europe, you can still purchase a Doppelmayr fixed-grip or a Garaventa lift in general.
Leitner-Poma is a different beast. Leitner S.A. of Italy did merge with Pomagalski S.A. in 2000; and although I think Leitner lifts are still built in Europe, you can't get one in North America anymore.
Maybe Michael Meier can clarify this, but I think you can still buy a Wopfner detachable in the old world

[KZ]

That is strange though because the World Books have Doppelmayr, Garaventa, and DoppelmayrCTEC, so somehow they are linked together. I guess this also means that we will never see a MCS lift here in North America.

[floridaskier]

So is Garaventa AG in Europe related to DoppelmayrCTEC in any way now? That would be great to see an MCS lift here

Are there any lifts in the world book that say Doppelmayr that were built in the US after 2002?

[SkiBachelor]

From what I have read from a European website is that Doppelmayr aquired most of Garaventa's stock making Doppelmayr the new owner of Garaventa. The merger between the two companies was an aquision but Doppelmayr and Garaventa still us their seperate names in Europe for some reason, probably because they are in different countries, but are still the same company. However, in North America, we ended up getting Doppelmayr CTEC, probably because that way the two companies wouldn't be taxed twice by Canadian and The United States government, because they would be using two different company names. This same concept probably applies to Leitner-POMA, because both companies still use their same name, but manufacturer the same product.

However, I still believe you can be able to purchase lifts from Doppelmayr/Garaventa of Europe or Leitner/POMA of Europe since these companies still have to share a part of their actual profit with their parent company. I can't understand why you wouldn't be able to order a MCS or UNI-G high-speed lift from Europe when Doppelmayr CTEC would still manufacturer the main parts for the lift like the towers, sheaves and other stuff, which would then entitle Dopp CTEC to have part of the profit from installing a lift from Europe. And on Doppelmayr CTEC's website, there are links that go to Garaventa's website if your interested in purchasing lifts that Doppelmayr CTEC doesn't offer/manufacturer here in North America.

But what I don't understand is why these North American lift companies like Doppelmayr CTEC and Leitner-POMA have to design their own lifts and not offer what their parents companies are offering in Europe. It just kind of makes me mad that Doppelmayr CTEC no longer offers the UNI-G, just the UNI-GS, even though this new terminal design looks pretty ugly from its European counterpart, the UNI-G.

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[floridaskier]

Is that picture from SAM magazine, Cameron?

It seems like it would be cheaper to make the MCS here in North America, no design costs or any of that, and if Doppelmayr owns both Garaventa and DoppelmayrCTEC, why should they bother designing more than one model?

It'll be interesting to see one of these at DV between a Stealth 1 and 3, and near a Stealth 2 at PCMR. Maybe by then I'll have a camera to show you guys

[SkiBachelor]

That's what I'm trying to figure out too Tyler. It seems like it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just offer two different types of high-speed quad lifts rather than Doppelmayr CTEC designing their own and the same goes for Leitner-POMA of America.

Tyler, that is like 1 of the 2 Doppelmayr CTEC advertisement that have appeared in SAM in the last two issues.

[snowboardguy]

ahh the UNI-GS is so ugly. Imma have to look at that all day at mammoth :(

[floridaskier]

How many UNI-GSs are going in this year? I know there's still two Stealth 3s at Alta and Mt Rose, are there any more?

[SkiBachelor]

I presume that Rose and Alta got the last Stealth 3 terminals while the rest of the high-speed lifts will be UNI-GS.

However, it's kind of funny that when the UNI-GS terminal came out last year, Gunstock was the only resort that bought this terminal design while all the rest went with the UNI-G or Stealth 3 terminal design. Anyway, we arn't the only ones that think that this terminal design looks bad, because I know of one resort that doesn't like it either, so it makes you wonder if most of the resorts have the same feeling about the terminal as we do.

[floridaskier]

There's still hope that they'll modify the 2004-2005 model to look more like the UNI-G

[KZ]

I still don't get why they changed the design. We had the newest uni-g here in the us/canada since 2000, so was it really time for something new? It would be interesting if we actually ended up seeing more stealth's in these new lifts as we don't know for sure that they are going to be UNI-GS's, or do we? Maybe if we do, we will see more custom designs for the terminal coverings. I could see some resorts custom ordering something to make the lift nicer if they really didn't like how it looked. I know I probably would.

[SkiBachelor]

I heard Alta was the only the last ski resort to get a Stealth but I guess Rose was able to sneak one by too. Anyway, when I talked to Caryn, she said that all the new lifts for this season, other than alta and rose will be the UNI-GS. Anyway, I have a feeling they will start to get comments on how bad the terminal looks.

Maybe the reason why CTEC doesn't want to offer other lift manufacturers lift designs is because CTEC is Jan's company and he wants to be different. Anyway, I hope some day Doppelmayr CTEC will offer some of the European lift designs again because it seems like CTEC has always liked to use cheaper products to build its lifts. I mean they are still great lift on how they operate and stuff but I mean the design elements of the lifts. Like CTEC doesn't really care what the lift looks like, just as long as the lift is reliable. This is probably the reason why Doppelmayr CTEC stopped offering the UNI-G since it was more expensive to manufacture and designed the UNI-GS terminal, but keeping the internal parts the same. The windows that are used on the new UNI-GS are now made out of plexy glass and the window size has even got smaller, and what's up with that terminal understructure of the UNI-GS?

Since the recent lift manufacturer mergers, all three lift manufacturers seem to offer cheaper products now and products will continue to get cheaper. Of course that's good but I would rather have a nice looking chairlift than some lift that looks ugly and looks to be falling apart, even though it runs great.

[floridaskier]

I wonder if they got any comments last year about how bad it looked from Gunstock. If the launch customer didn't like it too much, they might change it. I can't wait to see one of these in person