10 replies to this topic

[jeffgladnick]

Anyone have any idea of how many resorts per state there are, and then resorts per country outside the US.

I have seen previous posts that detail that ^^^ question, but...

furthermore, does anyone have info about how that would breakdown into number of lifts per resort, and how many chairs per lift, and how many footrests (quad/triple/double) per chair.

My goal is to try and create an accurate idea of how many chairs there are with footrests in the country. Barring an exact number, an average will do.

IE, there are 500 resorts in the country, each resort has an average of 6.5 lifts, each lift has an average of 100 chairs, each chair has an average of 1.1 footrests.

So 500 x 6.5 x 100 x 1.1 = 357,500

Something like that but with some numbers to back it up.

This isnt that easy, since you have to factor in six packs, quads, triples, singles, then how many have footrests!

One idea is to do a model of one particular state, but thats not necessarily ag ood idea, since in my opinion, footrests vary by geographical location (ny=lots, lake tahoe=slim to none).

I am open to ideas!!!!

[jeffgladnick]

Here is my first attempt at a random sampling of 10 resorts.

I have the excel file if anyone is interested, i will post it.

I randomly selected numbers from 1 to 424 based on total # of resorts on skiodyssey.com. Resorts were ranked according to highest # per/state, and then alphabetical order. MI had 43 resorts, and was first. Correspondingly, the #1 resort was Al Quaal Recreation,. So #44 was Belleayre Mountain, the first resort in NY. and so on. 10 resorts were randomly selected, and are listed below. Their lift information was looked up, and the 10 were averaged out as a representation of north america.

First crack at averages:
# Random Resort Selected SixPack Quad Triple Double AVG # of chairs/lift * Average # of lifts w/ footrests***
1 Mount Snow, VT 0 4 10 4 100 0.5
2 Mad River Glen, VT **** 0 0 0 3 100 0.5
3 Dry Hill Ski Area, NY 0 0 0 1 100 0.5
4 Snow Ridge, NY 0 0 0 4 100 0.5
5 Sterling Forest Ski Center, NY 0 0 0 4 100 0.5
6 Hidden Valley, PA 0 1 2 3 100 0.5
7 Ski Sawmill, PA 0 0 0 1 100 0.5
8 Nordic Mountain, WI 0 0 1 1 100 0.5
9 Ragged Mountain, NH 1 0 2 2 100 0.5
10 Echo Valley, WA 0 0 0 0 100 0.5
TOTALS 1 5 15 23 100 0.5
Average Per resort 0.1 0.5 1.5 2.3 100 0.5

(570 total) Applied North American Numbers 57 285 855 1311 100 0.5
Total NA Chairs (w/ footrests) 2850 14250 42750 65550
Total North American Footrests 8550 28500 85500 65550
Total NA Footrests Overall 188100


* Source: My estimate for right now

*** Correction variable used to guess how many of total lift lines have footrests
****Resort does not allow snowboarding at this time

[snowboardguy]

why are you doing this? --- Sounds interesting!

[SkiBachelor]

Wow Jeff, this model is a lot more confuesing than I thought it would be.

Snowboardguy, Jeff owns the company UpHill Enterprises, which makes the snowboard footrest product SnoRhino. So the reason why Jeff is doing this is so he can get an average number of lifts that have footrest here in North America. Make sense now?

[liftmech]

Jeff, I'm glad I'm not the one doing the counting... :---: Something you ought to consider (which it appears that you have) is that out West areas tend to have footrests only on detachable lifts. They were not generally offered on fixed-grips when these areas were built, and retrofit kits are expensive and time-consuming. There will thus be many areas which do not have footrests on any of their lifts.
BTW I've seen your product on the Eagle (at Copper) but no-one in our department nor anyone from operations has been able to give me any feedback on it. It seems people didn't ask 'hey, what are these newfangled devices on the Eagle?' so we haven't heard if they work, if people like them, et cetera.

[jeffgladnick]

liftmech, on Jul 16 2004, 03:58 AM, said:

Jeff, I'm glad I'm not the one doing the counting... :---: Something you ought to consider (which it appears that you have) is that out West areas tend to have footrests only on detachable lifts. They were not generally offered on fixed-grips when these areas were built, and retrofit kits are expensive and time-consuming. There will thus be many areas which do not have footrests on any of their lifts.
BTW I've seen your product on the Eagle (at Copper) but no-one in our department nor anyone from operations has been able to give me any feedback on it. It seems people didn't ask 'hey, what are these newfangled devices on the Eagle?' so we haven't heard if they work, if people like them, et cetera.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I am aware of this. I'm still not exactly sure how I will compute the % of lifts with footrests, but that seems like a good estimation. I can lookup my samples with NSAA and see how many HSQ they have. Of course I would have to use different variables for out west and the east :).

As for the copper trials, our rep there Chris, didn't do so well. Copper was the ONLY resort he followed up with, and didn't convince them for whatever reason. You can't convince everyone to be the early adopter, so this didnt shock me. We did get a sale with telluride though, not through him.

Other resorts adopting this year: Massanutten, VA; Catamount, NY; Hunter, NY; Wachusett, MA; Sugarloaf, ME (Repeat customer); Telluride, CO; Stowe, VT* pending approval of VT tramway board.

There are about 5 other customers who are seriously interested, and another 10 or so on the fence.

We are still looking to partner with a lift company to make our product standard equipment on their chairlifts, Hagan? That would accomplish our goal of a chairlift designed to accomodate snowboarders just as easily as skiers.

[Powdr]

Just adding my $.02:

Even if there are more than a thousand resorts in the country, you should do the research and get the actual number of lifts (w/ footrests) for each resort by state. I know that seems like a lot of work, but that would give you real numbers. You can get most of that info by looking at the resort's website and call their marketing department for further details, While your at it, ask how likely they are to buy such a product. Good research leads to good, accurate business models, which will help you tremendously in your business forecasts.

Powdr

[jeffgladnick]

Powdr, on Jul 16 2004, 06:42 AM, said:

Just adding my $.02:

Even if there are more than a thousand resorts in the country, you should do the research and get the actual number of lifts (w/ footrests) for each resort by state. I know that seems like a lot of work, but that would give you real numbers. You can get most of that info by looking at the resort's website and call their marketing department for further details, While your at it, ask how likely they are to buy such a product. Good research leads to good, accurate business models, which will help you tremendously in your business forecasts.

Powdr
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are correct, but the amount of work would be enormous. Most lift operations people I have dealt with over the past 3 years aren't even sure of how many chairs they have off the top of their head. Websites rarely give lift stats beyond "we have 2 quads this year". I would have to talk to the lift ops/lift maint dept for every resort. I am not sure I have enough time to do that thorough of a job.

[jeffgladnick]

2nd batch (28 samples) completed... here are the results:



Key: Sixpack, quad, triple, double, avg # chairs per lift, avg % chairs with footrests

First batch of 10 AVG # of chairs/lift * Average # of lifts w/ footrests***
(570 total) Applied North American Numbers 57 285 855 1311 100 0.5
Total NA Chairs (w/ footrests) 2850 14250 42750 65550
Total North American Footrests 8550 28500 85500 65550
Total NA Footrests Overall 188100

2nd Batch of 28 AVG # of chairs/lift * Average # of lifts w/ footrests***
(570 total) Applied North American Numbers 81.42857143 651.4285714 875.3571429 1058.571429 100 0.5
Total NA Chairs (w/ footrests) 4071.428571 32571.42857 43767.85714 52928.57143
Total North American Footrests 12214.28571 65142.85714 87535.71429 52928.57143
Total NA Footrests Overall 217821.4286

Combined Batches (38 samples) AVG # of chairs/lift * Average # of lifts w/ footrests***
(570 total) Applied North American Numbers 75 555 870 1125 100 0.5
Total NA Chairs (w/ footrests) 3750 27750 43500 56250
Total North American Footrests 11250 55500 87000 56250
Total NA Footrests Overall 210000

This post has been edited by jeffgladnick: 16 July 2004 - 09:52 AM

[liftmech]

jeffgladnick, on Jul 16 2004, 09:49 AM, said:

You are correct, but the amount of work would be enormous.  Most lift operations people I have dealt with over the past 3 years aren't even sure of how many chairs they have off the top of their head.  Websites rarely give lift stats beyond "we have 2 quads this year".  I would have to talk to the lift ops/lift maint dept for every resort.  I am not sure I have enough time to do that thorough of a job.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you call an area, try to talk to the maintenance department as they would have more accurate information. Nothing against lift operations, but they're not always on top of the scene and some don't even work during the summer, which is the best time to call and try a sales pitch. We're the ones who will be dealing with your product anyway.

[jeffgladnick]

liftmech, on Jul 17 2004, 03:44 AM, said:

jeffgladnick, on Jul 16 2004, 09:49 AM, said:

You are correct, but the amount of work would be enormous.  Most lift operations people I have dealt with over the past 3 years aren't even sure of how many chairs they have off the top of their head.  Websites rarely give lift stats beyond "we have 2 quads this year".  I would have to talk to the lift ops/lift maint dept for every resort.  I am not sure I have enough time to do that thorough of a job.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you call an area, try to talk to the maintenance department as they would have more accurate information. Nothing against lift operations, but they're not always on top of the scene and some don't even work during the summer, which is the best time to call and try a sales pitch. We're the ones who will be dealing with your product anyway.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is another idea i had: http://www.skilifts....tall_na1998.htm
im looking here:
Copper Mountain Excelerator 4C-Det. Poma 500 3216 846 2450 1100
Copper Mountain Super Bee Express 6C-Det. Poma 1400 8870 2293 2900 1100

Using the lift construction surveys, and with a few phone calls emails to friendly resorts. I think i could get a clear picture of the average number of chairs per lift line based on length of lift and high speed or fixed. So perhaps you could get me started by telling me how far apart each chair is on those two lines, nad how many chairs total (and whether or not they have footrests) :).

I think i could use this data and go back 12 years with the lift construction surveys to form a pretty accurate model.

Thanks, and opinions wanted!