9 replies to this topic

[Conrad]

I recently skied at Magic Mountain where they have been running the Black Chair as a 2 passenger chairlift despite having triple chairs. When someone on their Facebook page asked why they weren't running it as a triple, they replied that the engine had been rated as a double since 2005. My question is, wouldn't it be better to simply remove some of the chairs so they can continue to operate it as a triple?

On a similar, but slightly different note:
At other ski areas, there are some lightly used lifts that I wonder why they don't remove chairs from the line. West Mountain chair at Sugarloaf has 280 chairs and a capacity of 1,200 people an hour, yet it is barely used by anyone. Is the friction of the extra chairs that inconsequential? I guess one example where they did reduce capacity was at Cranmore. When they built the Schneider chairlift, they simply took 60 chairs from the Lookout chairlift.

[Lift Dinosaur]

Conrad, on 21 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

My question is, wouldn't it be better to simply remove some of the chairs so they can continue to operate it as a triple?

On a similar, but slightly different note:
... West Mountain chair at Sugarloaf has 280 chairs and a capacity of 1,200 people an hour, yet it is barely used by anyone. Is the friction of the extra chairs that inconsequential? I guess one example where they did reduce capacity was at Cranmore. When they built the Schneider chairlift, they simply took 60 chairs from the Lookout chairlift.

"Simply removing some of the chairs" isn't that simple. Chairlifts are designed with various loading conditions- 1) Uphill and downhill sides empty, 2) Uphill loaded and downhill empty, and 3) if downhill loading is permitted all of the variables to include downhill load. In all of these cases the sheaves and assemblies must have a specified amount of weight on them. By randomly removing carriers you could upset this balance and cause an assembly to become unweighted in certain instances. In the case of Magic, they might could have done and engineering review and determined the most efficient way was to reduce each carrier to 2 passengers.
To modify West Mountain would also require an Engineering Review and perhaps the Area doesn't want to spend the money to 1) Reduce Capacity and 2) Figure out where to store 140 chairs!! Likewise, I'm sure there was an E.R. for those modifications at Cranmore.
Hope this helps.
Dino

[DonaldMReif]

I've seen some high speed lifts in similar positions. The Highline Express at Vail is a 2,800 pph lift yet I don't feel it gets the crowds to warrant such a high uphill capacity.

[skiersage]

Conrad, on 21 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

I recently skied at Magic Mountain where they have been running the Black Chair as a 2 passenger chairlift despite having triple chairs. When someone on their Facebook page asked why they weren't running it as a triple, they replied that the engine had been rated as a double since 2005. My question is, wouldn't it be better to simply remove some of the chairs so they can continue to operate it as a triple?

The thing that confuses me about this black chair situation is that I rode it the last time it ran which was in 2014. It was still running as a triple then. Not sure what changed with it since then that would warrant lowering the capacity.

I did hear a rumor from another magic skier this winter. I heard that the Vermont tramway board actually did want Magic to decrease the chair count by one third. This would have had the same capacity as running it as a double with the current spacing. However, once the chairs were set up in this configuration, they determined that some of towers did not have adequate loading on the sheaves. So they had to re-space the chairs again and set back normal but running it as a double. If that rumor is true the lift dino's comment was pretty well on point in this case. Either way, I read somewhere that they plan to modify the lift this summer so it can be back to full capacity. I guess we'll see next winter.

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[RibStaThiok]

Notes from Wikipedia for Magic Mountain:
Ski Magic, LLC purchased the property in November 2016, shortly after Thanksgiving. The operations crew got to work immediately by upgrading their entire snowmaking system and repairing/replacing the pipes. They also successfully got the Black Chair triple certified to run as a double (after a long closure with thoughts of it never opening again) just before the February break in 2017. This was needed as on the Sunday of the holiday week, they actually stopped selling tickets in order to keep lift line waits to a minimum. They ended the season on a high note with eager hands ready to dive into off season projects. One of these projects include getting the Green Chair running. This was a lift that was planned, but never completed. It is essential to the mountain as it offers a mid station off load. If you have been to Magic, you know their easy way down from the top isn't exactly easy for beginners. It is also very long. The Green Chair will offer more access to easier terrain, and also be used in the early season when all mountains are competing to open. The historic and beautiful Red Chair has always been taken care of, is the main lift, and is still a way to go back in time, when skiing still has soul. They also plan on adding more snowmaking as well as repairing and extending pipes. New construction and face lifts are going on in all aspects. Magic Mountain looks forward with great joy, to the 2017-2018 season.

https://en.wikipedia...untain_Ski_Area

[Lift Dinosaur]

Please don't regurgitate Wikipedia for us. If we are totally bored we can do that ourselves.
Thanks
Dino

[_litz]

that lift does bring up an interesting question ... the statement that it's limited to 2 passengers per chair due to the motor horsepower ...

so what difference in horsepower would be required, and what's the cost difference?

[Lift Dinosaur]

_litz, on 01 June 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

that lift does bring up an interesting question ... the statement that it's limited to 2 passengers per chair due to the motor horsepower ...

so what difference in horsepower would be required, and what's the cost difference?

Where do you see "motor horsepower"? I haven't seen the Tramway Board report, but the opening statement says "engine".
To me a 'motor' is electric and an 'engine' is gas or diesel. It is very possible that when they tried to load test the lift in 2005 that the evacuation 'engine' could not pull the required load so the lift was derailed to a double.
JMHO
Dino

[Lift Dinosaur]

That should be "derated to a double"��
Dino

[_litz]

Hmm ... that would make sense then ... so most likely it's less a question of spec'ing parts for the system to match a derated load, but more a general degradation of systems over time that caused it to no longer be capable of a 3-passenger operational capability?