8 replies to this topic

[NHskier13]

So I was at Waterville Valley today (9 of 55 trails, literally only one GOOD run because new england)

I heard this secondhand by someone in the lodge, but apparently they left the valley run ('97 doppy) and white peaks ('88 poma) running in the freezing rain so that they don't freeze up. I'm assuming that if they were doing that to prevent them freezing up, it's probably because of the grips or the sheaves on the towers. Something allowed them to not run white peaks by 1 in the morning, so they shut it down. Until 10 am, they were trying to get it up and running. The noticeable setback was the chair spacing - there was a chair, normally spaced behind another, then another three feet in front of that one, so they had to push the farther ahead chair through the terminal while the line was moving at very low speed to space the chairs out.

I had some videos of what they were doing, I can maybe get them up by tomorrow but until then, here are some photos of the chair spacing and them working to space them out.
EDIT : HERE IS THE VIDEO ; https://www.youtube....h?v=g0jaX3R66s4
 SAM_4212.JPG (1.32MB)
Number of downloads: 184 Chair Spacing is On Point
 SAM_4214.JPG (1.39MB)
Number of downloads: 231 This one is a bit fuzzy, but you can see some slack in the line. Is that because the chairs are close together?
 SAM_4245.JPG (472.72K)
Number of downloads: 209
 SAM_4246.JPG (489.11K)
Number of downloads: 189
 SAM_4354.JPG (492.59K)
Number of downloads: 138
So what exactly is the proper operation sequence when there is freezing rain overnight? Why were the chairs stored like that? What would happen if they weren't running?

This post has been edited by NHskier13: 02 January 2016 - 04:52 PM

[Mike12164]

If the line weren't kept running none of the sheaves would turn the next morning.

That chair spacing doesn't look intentional, in freezing rain ice can build up on detachable grips, then when it reaches the terminal it just glides over the tires without slowing down, sort of like what happens when you try to brake in your car on an super icy road.

[snoloco]

I remember one day I was at Mountain Creek and it was snowing, and then changed to freezing rain. I was riding the South Peak Express (1998 Doppelmayr) when it happened. The lift immediately stopped and would not stay on every time they tried to start it again. It moved a few feet, then stopped, and this repeated for 45 minutes until I got off. When I arrived at the top, there were maintenance crews knocking ice off the grips before they entered the terminal. The lift was closed for the night as soon as everyone was unloaded.

Also, the same spacing issues that NHskier mentioned, I witnessed at Windham Mountain on their 1993 CTEC detachable. There was this one area where there were no chairs on the line at all, and another area where there were 3 or 4 literally right on top of each other. It took almost the entire day to get the spacing corrected.

[NHskier13]

Mike12164, on 31 December 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

If the line weren't kept running none of the sheaves would turn the next morning.

That chair spacing doesn't look intentional, in freezing rain ice can build up on detachable grips, then when it reaches the terminal it just glides over the tires without slowing down, sort of like what happens when you try to brake in your car on an super icy road.

Yikes, is there anything to keep them from hitting eachother? It seems to me like it would render the spacing unit useless if the conditions you describe it with were completely true.

This post has been edited by NHskier13: 31 December 2015 - 08:44 PM

[DashHopes]

Those pictures look all too familiar lol. When we have freezing rain we bring in 3 guys. 1 guy stays at the top of our detachable Doppelmayr chair and one at the bottom, this chair is left running full time at 30%. Unless the conditions are dire we will run it at 100%. The 3rd operator rotates between the other 8 fixed gripped chairs and rotates each one a full turn, comes back to the detachable to check the top of the grips for ice. If there is ice build up he will do one full turn of grip banging to remove the ice (We built a cage for this so not near moving parts) Then the 3rd operator does it all over again.

[RibStaThiok]

That's dedication

[aug]

Park the chairs in the barn ..... run bare rope overnight to keep the wheels turning . hope for the best . If you do not have chair parking ...your screwed. .

[Kelly]

Referring to the first post – this is not an uncommon event and especially true with the first and second generation grip traction plates (the flat looking plate on the very top of the grip) along with the acel/decel tires tread design.
 T-plate-with-tires.jpg (96.85K)
Number of downloads: 128
As the use of detachables grew the engineers and designers were truly exploring (to them) new territory along with trying to comprehend what the mechanics were mentioning about extreme icing conditions that occur with regular intervals in the Pacific Northwest.
This picture is from Mt. Spokane Washington from around 1946 – (a double detachable) and if memory serves me correctly it is one of the first double carrier passenger ropeways from Riblet. The picture serves as evidence that icing issues is not a new phenomena…so the old saying of “forget the past and you’re bound to repeat the same problems” holds true.
 Spokane tower ice.jpg (348.54K)
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As to spacing – those controls can be bypassed for nonpublic use, any spacing issues are corrected before opening to the public. The key item is to get the lift moving, then get the grips into a position so that they can be deiced by either a person or just by the action of the traction plate/tire sequence…spacing is a secondary consideration until the public is using the ropeway…then it is the primary consideration.
Some resorts have platforms built outside of the entrance of each terminal to facilitate deicing grips. This shows a cramped mechanic deicing inside the terminal.
 Mt-B-grip-deice.jpg (99.07K)
Number of downloads: 201
DashHopes post gives a good overview at his ski area on what happens in light icing conditions. As mentioned sheave icing is also a consideration. Some ski areas have learned that any night running is futile because the sheaves ice well before any grip issues occur.
As member Aug (a deicing specialist from the Pacific Northwest) mentions chair storage is a must at some resorts.
This is a early “grip only” storage at Squaw Valley in California from the 1980’s.
 SV-grip-cover.jpg (99.55K)
Number of downloads: 199
Mt Bachelor in Oregon adopted a complete terminal with covered chair parking a few years later; this type of storage had been used many times in the past at other resorts in the form of gondola storage - see link for Bachelor’s pic set: http://www.skilifts....-mtbachelor.htm
Mt. Bachelor out of necessity has developed some interesting tower deicing procedures.
 Mt-B-cable-walk.jpg (99.87K)
Number of downloads: 152
Timberline Oregon is deicing the cable by pulling an anchor shackle down the rope (this is sticky blue cocktail ice and is very stubborn to remove): https://www.youtube....h?v=qiqsLuvY200
Mt. Bachelor resort has a few storm recovery videos showing some deicing sequences: https://www.youtube....h?v=wlYZUlHzby4
Another detachable at Mt. Bachelor named Outback Express showing light sheave de-icing procedures: https://www.youtube....h?v=YfItuT6axIU
Mt. B Summit cable ride: https://www.youtube....h?v=XEwhHnP10l4

[vons]

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